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If you go back and re-read MY post, you will see that I admitted I made a mistake (yes humans do that) and I thought you were talking about "Yellow Brick Road," and not "Alice."  In post #65, by me, you'll see where I actually gave a link to that song, and I said it wasn't gay.  Then, in post #97, by me, you can reread when I realized you were talking about "Alice," and not "Yellow Brick Road," and it was there that I admitted the "Alice" song was about a lesbian.  For some unknown reason I just thought of "Yellow Brick Road" when I saw those words and totally lost track of the "Alice" lyrics until you had to repost them.  

So, there is no denial, no denial, no denial.  I am right and you are wrong on this one.  I will admit that I misread your post and got the song messed up, I am a human, a man at that, and I'm not afraid to admit when I mess up.  You, on the other hand, seem to think you are always right and I have proven you wrong several times, but instead of saying "Oh, you're right, I'm wrong," you move on to a different subject and ignore when I called you out.  Once again, Elton John may sing about gays, he may not, but I am standing by what I've always said, just one simple thing, that he is still a good musician.   At this point it doesn't even matter to me anymore.  If Jesus were alive he'd probably admit the same thing, but would he care that Elton John was a good musician?  Probably not, he would care more about his salvation.




I NEVER once said I literally follow the Bible to every word.  So yes, I agree, I don't literally follow the Bible, whether its intentionally or unintentionall y.  If I followed everything the Bible said, commanded me to do, then I would be perfect and I would never sin.  But I don't, I CANNOT, because I am human, and I was separated from God.  That is where Jesus comes in - he followed all of God's word, he lived the perfect life, and by me admitting I'm a sinner and not perfect and not worthy of God, but asking Jesus to come into my life and the Holy Spirit to fill my heart, I have become a child of God.  By Jesus dieing on the cross, he died for my sins and for everyone else's, sins I've committed in the past, sins I committ today, and sins I'll comitt for the rest of my life.  

Just because I cannot perform everything Bible says, doesn't mean I don't try to, and doesn't mean I'm not a Christian, or a hypocrite, and any other label you love using.  It just means I'm in need of a savior.  You don't understand any of this though because you yourself do not know Jesus/God.  It is NOT a fact that I pick and choose which parts of the Bible I want to follow.  Since you probably didn't read it or didn't understand it, I said that the Old Testament was from a different convanent, one in which we do not live now.  We live in a new convanent now, and follow what Jesus has taught, in the New Testament, which still comes from God.  God commanded others to do thing, kill, ect., but he is not commanding ME to do that because I am not living in Old Testament times.  People use to bring sacrifices as an offering to God - they do not do that anymore because we have Jesus now.  God commanded that in the Old Testament, does that mean I should be doing it right now?  No.  

Yes, you've shown me where it says or talking about killing gays in the Bible, but that is not what I asked.  I asked you to show me where it commandes ME personally to do so, and you still haven't found that verse.  You found the LV verse in which God commands Moses to do it, and you found the Romans verse in which Paul talks about God's wrath and God's judgement of gays, not mine.  Its all about God, don't you see, not about me.  I'm just living my life according to God's will.  I am not judging them, God is.  I am called to share my testimony and the gospel with them.  


If you think I am "twisting" your words, I apologize.  If you want me to (believe me you don't because I'll prove you wrong), I will go back to your post where you talked about stoning gays, quote it word-for-word, show you where I said that doesn't apply to me, and then you never did show me.  Its not twisting words to win an argument.  Do you think that is what this is about?  Do you think I am trying to "win" an argument?  You are wrong if you think so.  I know I not going to change your mind, I know I will never declare victory on this post.  What I do know is that I am sharing my life and my beliefs with you, and that it is causing you to think about it more closely.  If you do become a Christian, it won't be because of me, it'll be because of God and I was just planting a seed.

Like I said, those verses you quoted from Romans are Paul talking about God's wrath and judgement against people who know God and what God wants but neither have glorified him nor gave thanks to him.  People like you.  Although you may not be gay, you have a knowledge of God (reading the Bible twice before you were 12 means almost nothing because you did not apply it), yet you still refuse him.  It is you who is dead.  Your spirit is dead, you are dead in your sins, and it will ultimately lead to a physical death, but of course we will all die.  This is what Blakjax was saying, and you were right, the soul never dies, but the Bible refers to "dead souls/spirits" as ones which do not know God.  They are dead in their sins.  Become a believer is being "born again," a new creation, even though its not physical, its spiritual.  

I am not claiming to believe in something I have never fully explored.  Being a Christian is not reading the Bible cover to cover, as much as possible, memorizing every verse, and blah blah blah.  It helps in your relationship with God, to know him more.  Obviously the more you read, and the more you pray, the more you know Him.  But I still know him, and that is all that matters.  Here's what I claim to believe:  God is perfect, holy, he created everything.  He created man, in His image, to worship Him.  Man sinned against him.  Man and God became separated.  Jesus was sent to live the life that God created man for, then died for all of man's sins.  People who admit they sin and they surrended their lives to Jesus are once again connected to God, but only through Jesus.  God cannot look down on us for we are not holy.  But it is through the blood of Christ that he sees us and knows us, and that we may know Him.  That is what I believe.  

I'm sorry if I cannot tell you some of the stories from the Old Testament.  Maybe some day I will.  But that is not what matters, not to Christians, maybe to people like you.  I read the word, I pray to God, and I try to live my life to glorify him.  I've known several people with a much better understanding of the Bible than me, but they didn't have a personal relationship with God, therefore they were dead as well.  It is sad to think that you THINK you have a rational and informed knowledge of the Bible but you do not have a personal relationship with God.  It is sad to think that you are still living by the same spiritual beliefs as when you were twelve.  I was once like you, not exactly the same, but a lot like you.  I loved to argue Christianity and make fun of it and all that, but then I really looked into it and realized the truth.  Basically there are two types of people in this world - saved and unsaved.  The saved people who read this will know exactly what I'm talking about.  The unsaved people will read it and either agree with you, agree with me but still not committ their lives to Christ, be totally confused, or just not care.

If you want to continue the Bible study, let's hear some more scripture and how I allegedly do not "choose" to apply it to my life, when it was never meant for me to follow anyway.  I am not "claiming" to believe what I believe, I do believe it.  For some reason it upsets you.  I am not one of the "bible thumpers" who is going to try to change your life and scream at you and tell you that you're going to burn in hell, even though at this point I believe you will I'm not going to say it to you.  But do not pretend to think you know me, to know what I have done and haven't done for God, to think I haven't labored for him, to think all of this is fake and phony.  If you truly knew me and said those things, then maybe I'd be interested, but you don't and I'm not.  I am interested in telling you what is truth.  What I find funny is that Jesus warned me about you, he warned all Christians that they would face opposition.  Its so much easier to live on your side, but it is so much better to be on mine.

To your sermon I say, anyone with an IQ above 100, who has read the bible completely, or even very large portions of it, it is impossible to believe in god.  There are so many contradictions, lies, acts of violence, and insane people in the bible that it is IMPOSSIBLE to be a rational person and still believe in it.  You have blinders on that are caused by your need to feel that there is some great being out there guiding us and protecting us, so you ignore the offensive parts of the bible and just focus on what you believe are the 'good' parts.  If you cared to take a look at the violence being committed in the world today, even ignoring the insanity of the bible, you would see that there is no god.  Where is he?  Why doesn't he set a bush on fire like he used to do?  He created this mess, but now he's too good to clean it up and your only option is to blindly believe in him?  He created man, he created mans violence.  He could have just as easily created the ideal man, but apparently he is so insecure that he needs to love and approval of mortal beings that only exist because he created them?  Sounds like a spoiled child playing with his dolls.

Those are rhetorical questions, I know the answers to them, so don't take it as an invitation to spread the faith.  The real answer is that human nature causes the mess, and there is no god.  You also seem to have a mild savior complex in that you feel you are being persecuted(via the internet?...) for your beliefs.

"So, there is no denial, no denial, no denial.  I am right and you are wrong on this one.  I will admit that I misread your post and got the song messed up, I am a human, a man at that, and I'm not afraid to admit when I mess up.  You, on the other hand, seem to think you are always right and I have proven you wrong several times, but instead of saying "Oh, you're right, I'm wrong," you move on to a different subject and ignore when I called you out.  Once again, Elton John may sing about gays, he may not, but I am standing by what I've always said, just one simple thing, that he is still a good musician.   At this point it doesn't even matter to me anymore.  If Jesus were alive he'd probably admit the same thing, but would he care that Elton John was a good musician?  Probably not, he would care more about his salvation."

Actually you're the one who refuses to admit being wrong and jumps around.  That is why it took so long to pin you down on admitting that the song lyrics were gay.  I did miss where you admitted it, but to accuse me of not admitting to being wrong is one of your favorite tactics, especially in light of the fact that that is the only point I have been wrong on.   I have provided source after source, and backed up each argument with as many facts as possible.  You continue to run on faith and emotion.  Only now when you think you  see an advantage will you admit that you 'misunderstood' that I was talking about the alice song.  I have proven that EJ sings songs about being queer.  I have shown you in the bible where it calls for you to kill queers.  Never have I said that jesus says to kill queers, that is a straw man argument of your own invention.  You insisting on me providing proof of jesus telling you to tell queers has nothing to do with my statement about the bible calling for the death of homosexuals.  


You say that you know jesus even though you haven't read the entire bible...well, what is stopping you?  You have time to argue with me for 5 hours, but you can't read the bible in it's entireity?  You act like bibles are rare or hard to read.  I would think that with your enormous faith in god you would devour the book.  The only thing stopping YOU from reading the bible is YOU.  All your points otherwise have no meaning in light of that.  Think how much closer you could be to god once you deciphered the meaning of such passages as...

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men.  During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name.  So the man was brought to Moses for judgment.  His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan.  They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear.  Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head.  Then let the entire community stone him to death.  Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished.  Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel.  Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die.  (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

You say oh, we don't do things that way anymore, that was a long time ago and jesus came since then.  Well, how long is 2000 fucking years to your eternal, omnipotent god?  2000 years ago to him must be nothing, for he has existed for all of time, right?  In fact, there could be no time but for him.  So really, it was just yesterday on eternal being time that he decided you didn't have to kill your children to make him happy.  In fact it makes your god seem somewhat wishy washy and liable to perform the dreaded flip-flop.

By the way, did you know that the bible makes claims as to when god created the earth?  The infallible word of god, the inscrutable literal word of god handed down by him, says the Earth is about, oh, say 10,000 years old.  Did you know that modern science makes a joke of those claims?  Damn heretic scientists.  I guess the real problem is that the men who invented the religion and wrote the bible couldn't imagine the earth being billions of years old.

ahh, yes they are worthy of death. What is truely being said though is the "death" of the soul. It is saying the Homosexuality is a sin, yet all sins are worthy of death. But God sent his son Jesus to die on the cross so that we could be forgiven for our sins. You interpit death with killing, but it is the death of the soul they are refering to. This passage is put there to wrong the act of homosexuality, not to kill its followers.

It is what it is.  How nice of god to make his words so ambiguous for his followers.

Death of the soul?  The soul is eternal, didn't you know that?

Where does it say the soul?  Why not just say the soul, instead of saying 'worthy of death.?

You're worthy of death, Blakjax.  But I just mean your eyes, not you.  I know I said something completely opposite, but its faith brother.

Ah, are we still going to talk about this?  Yes Elton John is a homosexual.  Yes, a few of the songs that he sings have homosexual content in them.  That is what you want to here right?  There, you have it.  

Apparently you didn't read one of my last posts, or it is YOU that has trouble with comprehension.  I admitted that the "Alice" song was about a lesbian, but it was the song "Yellow Brick Road" that I denied had homosexual content.  I am finished discussing Elton John being gay and analyzing all the lyrics.  My only statement about him from here on out, and it is also my original statement from the beginning, is that he is still a great musician.  Bring up all the gay stuff you want, I don't care, I'll ignore it and continue to say that doesn't take away from the fact that he can write good "music," not lyrics.

And when are you going to accuse me of only following some parts of the Bible, not all parts, again?  Or bring on some verses, probably out of context, and try to lay them on me and call me a hypocrite.  Of course, you don't know what I really feel and how I really try to live.  No, you're going to put words into my mouth, something you are great at doing with everyone, tell me I say this about myself or others, but I don't actually do it, when in reality you haven't a clue.  So go back to a search on gays in the Bible, preferably the New Testament (the Old Testament is mainly stories about either profecy or law, we are in a new covanent now), and tell me where Jesus says to kill gay people.  I guess you had to sleep on that one eh?

Ah, the irony.  More accusations of poor reading comprehension.

Want me to tell you why your foot is in your mouth?  'Goodbye yellow brick road' is the album title.  I labeled it as such.  If you go back and read my post, correctly this time, you will see that I never made any mention of that song, other than as a reference to a movie that many queers love.  In fact I didn't even realize it was a song, I thought it was just the album title.  Any other straw men you want to construct?

Where did you admit the alice song was about being queer?  Point that out for me.  Denial, denial, denial.

Yes, facts are me putting words in people's mouths.  I say you don't literally follow the bible, which you don't, and I'm 'putting words in your mouth.'  Heres another fact..you pick and choose what parts of the bible you want to follow.

I've shown you in the bible where it says to kill queers.  I never said jesus said to kill gays, I said the bible did.  If you choose to ignore half the bible, thats your lookout, not mine.  Wow...you accuse me of twisting words, yet here you are trying to change everything I said so that it fits your argument better.  I like how you twisted my words into an argument you can win, an argument which has nothing to do with what I actually said, and then declared victory yet again.  

But since you insist, here is an example of the New Testament calling for the death of homosexuals.  I can't wait to see how you try to twist this.

Here god lists people worthy of death.  Notice homos (leaving the natural use of the woman...'the woman', not women...there is a critical difference there)make the list.  

Romans:
1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.  
1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;  
1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousnes s, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,  
1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,  
1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreake rs, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:    (1:31-32)
"They which commit such things are worthy of death."
Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death."  
1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them


There are your god's alleged words, straight from him.  Claiming to believe in something that you haven't read and explored fully is idiotic.  And for someone who wears his religion on his sleeve, you really should be better prepared for people who don't believe in your hocus pocus bullshit.  By the way, I've read the bible completely through twice.  And that was before I was 12.  It was under coercion, of course, but I would think a 'rational' adult xtian like yourself would be interested in reading what he claims to believe.  It is sad to think that I came to a more rational and informed conclusion on xtianity at the age of 12 than you have at 23 or whatever you are.  Sheep.

I've had this game for less than a year, and i never said i was a nazi for the record.

Well good thing last year was only 7 months ago.  And you have, for the record.  Your denials look somewhat awkward when combined with your name and the German flag as your avatar.

Wow, this proves how bad your memory is, or how easily you confuse names. I would never say that i'm a nazi, there you are mistaken. Wouldn't it seem ironic if i declared that i was a nazi, but have a jewish relative? It's improbable, i would never say that...do you enjoy putting words in peoples mouths?
What the hell is that supposed to mean "i haven't found out what i am yet..."

i'm aware i'm late in responding, had dinner.

Guess so.  Nazi chic is so like, last year.

Oh yay!  GWAR (the band) is coming to Houston on Friday night!  Maybe I'll go watch...

I might go to that show.

Gave up pussy, stopped doing toot
Now you can't wait to give someone the boot
Elbows and knuckles, all you know how
Follow the herd, just another cow
Brain full of shit, boots full of lead
Straight from Hitler's ass it's a Nazi Skinhead

HEY WHY DO NAZI SKINHEADS WEAR RED SUSPENDERS ANYWAY!?

Hey, come on, it is my turn for a reply.

Obviously we are all on the internet now, how about a trip to Ventrilo?

I have a very good feeling that Gwar wants no part of that...

I'm skeered.  Why don't we just have a conference call with each other instead?  I've never liked vent, even when I had to get on it to stay in mafia.  Its not like no one has ever heard my voice.  What is the difference in a disembodied voice, and a words on a screen?

Why don't you just pull over on a rest stop on 95 on your next trip and give me a call?  I'm pretty sure you want no part of that....

Since we're playing that game.

How many times did you revise that post before it was deemed good enough, anyway?