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[*MAFIA* MisfiT]

Calling it a case of "collateral murder," the WikiLeaks Web site today released harrowing until-now secret video of a U.S. Army Apache helicopter in Baghdad in 2007 repeatedly opening fire on a group of men that included a Reuters photographer and his driver -- and then on a van that stopped to rescue one of the wounded men.

None of the members of the group were taking hostile action, contrary to the Pentagon's initial cover story; they were milling about on a street corner. One man was evidently carrying a gun, though that was and is hardly an uncommon occurrence in Baghdad.

Reporters working for WikiLeaks determined that the driver of the van was a good Samaritan on his way to take his small children to a tutoring session. He was killed and his two children were badly injured.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0&feature=player_embedded#

[EaSyCoMpAnY]

Well its not the 1st time it has happened!! 

[Thunder]

Wow. Just..wow. Absolutely terrible. "I got one with an AK-47." Bullshit, not unless that AK-47 can take pictures.

[Loaded]

War is hell, shit happens on both sides.

[Thunder]

War is hell, shit happens on both sides.

I agree, but I don't think that it's right to open fire on innocent civilians.

[Loaded]

I agree, but I don't think that it's right to open fire on innocent civilians.

You think? So do I. But how can our guys (not just the US, all Allied Countries in the war zone) tell who are civilians or not? I don't see bad guy colors being shown, I don't see a big red cross on the van. There are rules of war and with the wars we are in right now in the middle east, those rules are not nearly followed, if at all by the bad guys.

Sorry, I don't feel sorry for anyone that is hurt that shouldn't be... If "plainclothes" people look like bad guys, so be it. There is no way in hell under the stress of battle someone is going to tell if that is a gun strap or a camera strap. And even after watching the vid that the gunner was seeing as well, I would have asked to shoot as well at the group and also the van.

And like all vids and so called "news" you only see what they what you to see to make the news. Ok two good guys (so they say) were killed, what about the other 12 or so? Nothing was said about them. You have 2 reporters that "could have been" with bad guys trying to get that side of the fight, well what in the hell is going to happen if you are with the other side when there is a war going on... That's right, you can get a bullet just as fast as the bad guy will/would. So in other words, if you don't want to get shot, stay away from the war zone. OR at least follow the rules of war and mark yourself as a bad guy, ambulance, reporter.

Again shit happens on both side.

[*MAFIA* Scooby]

[*MAFIA* Hellraiser]

People who have not been to war should not talk about those who have.  You have no idea what goes through someones head in situations.  Shit happens, get over it. 

[Thunder]

You think? So do I. But how can our guys (not just the US, all Allied Countries in the war zone) tell who are civilians or not? I don't see bad guy colors being shown, I don't see a big red cross on the van. There are rules of war and with the wars we are in right now in the middle east, those rules are not nearly followed, if at all by the bad guys.

Sorry, I don't feel sorry for anyone that is hurt that shouldn't be... If "plainclothes" people look like bad guys, so be it. There is no way in hell under the stress of battle someone is going to tell if that is a gun strap or a camera strap. And even after watching the vid that the gunner was seeing as well, I would have asked to shoot as well at the group and also the van.

And like all vids and so called "news" you only see what they what you to see to make the news. Ok two good guys (so they say) were killed, what about the other 12 or so? Nothing was said about them. You have 2 reporters that "could have been" with bad guys trying to get that side of the fight, well what in the hell is going to happen if you are with the other side when there is a war going on... That's right, you can get a bullet just as fast as the bad guy will/would. So in other words, if you don't want to get shot, stay away from the war zone. OR at least follow the rules of war and mark yourself as a bad guy, ambulance, reporter.

Again shit happens on both side.

True. It is truly amazing (in a bad way) how we can have a war (World War II) where we knew who we were fighting (Nazis and the Japanese, and I guess the Italians too but they didn't do shit) and where they were but then just 25 years later, we can have a war where the enemy is nowhere and everywhere at the same time (Vietnam). I completely understand your point, and I agree with you (after reading what you wrote and thinking about it for a little). I guess the only part of it that makes me feel a little disgusted is the 2 kids who got seriously injured.

[*MAFIA* Dempy]

People who have not been to war should not talk about those who have.  You have no idea what goes through someones head in situations.  Shit happens, get over it. 

i second that intill those people or indeed you lot. have been in these or worse sit-reps your opinion doesn't count.....

[Loaded]

Thunder... The kids are the part that is the ace in the hole for the media (well lets say it, anit-war people as well), everyone (myself included) would never want to hurt or see a child hurt... Why didn't the media talk about the other 12 or so that were shot down? But yet, they added the 2 children, to pull at your heart strings.

I would bet, if the gunners and people that were in charge knew there was a child in that van the clear to shoot orders would have never been asked for or given (the gunner was hurt with the news, IMO, you could tell by the pilot's voice as well)... Look at the video and see how far they zoomed to that section of the kids, there would be no way in hell for anyone to know they were there, even on foot at 25m it would have been hard to see them, when fighting, heart pumping 200x a minute, tunnel vision, bullets flying at you and so on. There is just no way you can look over every inch of a battlefield, it's just impossible. But it sure would be allot easier looking for someone in a battledress of the country your fighting instead of wondering if the next person in a white head dress will cut your head off or blow you/themselves up, when they pass by you.

I feel for those guys over there fighting, all of "our" allied, really I do. It hurts to kill someone, but hurts 2x as hard wondering if that person you killed should have been.

Roshan... The action of that soldier is what dose happen, they care very much for those kids.

[*MAFIA* Scooby]

Roshan... The action of that soldier is what dose happen, they care very much for those kids.

I know, Loaded. My sister is an MP in Afghanistan right now and we have sent over bags of candy and other things kids would like. She patrols a small village so it's nice to see that poor kids over there are getting something nice. That pic is just to provide a little humor, like almost every single pic I post here.

[*MAFIA* Dune Surfer]

A gun ho approach to dealing with missions is a quick fix and seemingly effective method of dealing with the problems in hand but you can guarantee "colateral damage". The US army repeatedly shows a blatent disreguard for innocent human life over and over which is captured and screened by the media which has become to be a total embarassment for pretty much all western armed forces. It makes you wander how loose US military protocol has become to allow for such events particulary when we're involved in a conflict associated with terrorism where we must atleast appear to be holding the moral highground.

[*MAFIA* Beatlejuice]

Dune & England just got owned.

[*MAFIA* Dune Surfer]

Wow! You can can tell your army man that no matter how stressed, "scarred" you are it doesn't give you a license to commit atrocities and murder under a banner.

you are uninformed or have been given false information to sway your opinion

I seriously couldn't have antisipated a more predictable, robotic and contrieved response from somone whos been indoctrinated into the military and latterly brainwashed.
I know I have free speech, do you?
I expect more from you MG, pull your socks up.