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[ICEMAN]

Kraut --- that's exactly my point!  Thank you for seeing that side!  Even if you have for so long.  I don't think of Iraqi's as terrorists, I think as if I were one, and imagine what we appear to them.  It then makes a lot of sense to me.  We recieve one text book in the United States, one point of view.  I like to read all the text books, and then make my assumptions.



Marine --- you can't just go attack people.  It's called, diplomacy.  If you have something to settle, you should settle it diplomatically, and with words.  This IS possible despite what some people think, it's not a "Utopian" type of stretch.  Saudi Arabia, is an amazingly wealth country.  If you are a citizen there, who follows the book of the Koran, then you have it made.  They treat their citizens extremely well, and if I am correct, the taxes actually go to the people.  Many people think of Saudi Arabia as a "bunch of sand niggers."  Well those "bunch of sand niggers," are some rich, very high class, intelligent motherfuckers that have it made.  That's where that money goes Marine... to the people... do some research on their benefits.

Saudi Arabia, does have a higher level of "terrorists" coming out of their country.  Why?  Put an education, with an extremist following of the Koran, and you have a factory for them.  Now, we assume that 1/2 of them are, but in reality, there's less extremist-fucked-up-Saudi Arabians than there are criminals in one county, of a state, in the US.


It's not wrong to call them anything.  We fit the definition.  If you were an Iraqi, wouldn't you think that it's wrong to have been called a terrorist, when you're the one being invaded?

[*MAFIA* KrautKiller]

Wow.. you just have to much pride in this government that you cant even admit it?  Lets see when have we been terrorists to other nations other than iraq?  Oh ya! Ever heard of the boston tea party?  oh ya and when we rose up against the english?  Well dont you think that iraq is doing the same thing that this countrys fathers did almost 300 years ago?  AND!  We had no right to invade iraq, for the reasons we did, so now dont you think that they may be doing what we did along time ago?  All i can say is jihad away, im supporting em.

[marine13]

Okay i admit your right but what the hell you want us to do SIT DOWN AND HAVE FUKING TEA WITH THE CRAZY SON OF BITCHES I CAN BELIEVE IT NOW HERE IS MY LITTLE PLAY.

President of USA/bush:"hey um some one tell osama bin laden i want to have tea with him and settle this."

Osama bin laden: "tell bush yes" 'wispers to the person next to him' (send someone who looks like me their with a piece of C4 in his stomach)

Bush:"okay its on tell him we will meet in sadi arabi in a cafe"

okay setting some cafe in sadi arabi

bush: "hello osama i think you know why i called you here"

Osama" yes i do and the answer is BABOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMM"

THE END this has been a marine13 production '' in the end america is under control of cheney who says:


cheney: "let me go out hunting with them terrorist suns of bitches and i will shoot them in the face damn basterds"

[*MAFIA* KrautKiller]

Wow are you that retarded?  osama has very few followers anymore, Also the car bombers are the iraqs that are jihading against the invaders?  Ever heard of the almohads?  They did the same thing the iraqs are doing now against the romans. Remember vietnam?  I doubt it, they also did the same that iraq is doing, so stop bitching about oh these terrorists are going to keep killing our troops!  Well its your god dam fought that they are dieing, supporting a government on their decisions, just because some son wants to finish what his father started.

[marine13]

okay i am done but what do you want to do if we sit back and let them bomb the hell outa the world we might as well just drop a nuc on our selfs. We need to start a world wide anti terrorist agency yes i know there is one already but we need one that is associated with all kinds of law inforcment agencies CIA, FBI, and local police. We need to get this under control or the world will go to hell and this will be hiting us harder and harder. Atleast they are being bombed in iraq and not the U.S OR THE U.K or germany well really dont know about them but. Ya well there must be something done we cant just sit around and hear everyday 50 more people died today. Tommorow 1000 so on. I think this is some sign that god wants us all to live in peace or he will MAKE ARMEGEADON come quick. Now srry to get into religion but this is a eligous war maybe what we need is another crusade i really dont know as long as bombs arent going off on my streets i dont really care. But when you say dont stick up for your country thats just bull shit. We are rebels i know that the boston tea party us revolting but what would you have done thats the guestion if you live in the US you have the right to expression and freedom of speach.

[*MAFIA* KrautKiller]

YOu dont get the point... Once the iraq police are all trained, we can then begin to pull out, but until then were stuck there, to solve that world wide bombing threat?  its solved cause why will they be jihading then?  They arent being attacked by a foreign country anymore.  And before you get into religion you should actually know abit about it.. GOD never said im gonna kill all of you cause your all terroists..  And Once again that statement

quote "We are rebels i know that the boston tea party us revolting but what would you have done thats the guestion if you live in the US you have the right to expression and freedom of speach."  

Well I just proved my point I believe,  All your saying is that our country is better than everyone else, just because we have the freedom to do things, it doesnt mean that other countrys cant resist us, cause believe it or not, there are also innocient civilians just like you and me over there who are also being killed by these so called "terrorists".

[MacGiraffe]

Ice, I support you and I hold the same mindset as you, but I'm also a Berkeley kid, so I guess liberalism is part of my soul. I understand the point of attacking Afghanistan, but I still see no point of the war in Iraq. I just wanted to support Iceman because no one else is and I do feel strong about this subject.

[iLLUSi0N]

marine13, do you want to hear the story of Saudi Arabia? It's a heartwarming tale of power politics, oil, and Osama bin Laden. Just let me know if you want to hear it and I'll post it. I don't want to if I don't have to because I have better things to do than explain world politics to a 13 year old whose teacher is a marine so he thinks he has the answer to everything.

[marine13]

No i didnt say that america is better i said " we are rebels yes i know that..." we are rebels if we werent there wouldent be america. Yes i know we need to train the iraqs but the thing is we got to find iraqs that trust us and belive we want peace and not to kill them. Rdicals want to be at the top they dont like that we have freedom they dont like anything that we like or believe in.They think that there right and thats it. There are way to many misterys to this world that cant be explained so it stays at that.

[marine454]

and sure go ahead i am a child i am here to leanr and express my views and if there wrong it is the elders not meaning you have to be 60 but like older ppl then me to correct me. I really dont think though that since my teacher is in the marines that i got to answer to eveything. I just felt like replying but if some way some how one them terrorist or radicals blow him up and he dies i am joining the marines and avenging his death.

[iLLUSi0N]

First of all, changing your name to marine454 doesn't change the fact that you're still 13. You're better off keeping it the way it was.
Secondly, if you're here to "leanr [sic]", then I think you've come to the wrong place. This thread is for people who already have a firm understanding of what terrorism is, who Osama is, and the current history of Iraq. If you think that the US has trouble "finding iraqis that trust us and believe we want peace," then you need to watch a few documentaries or turn on the news. Now, onto the story.

After WWII, many countries realized the importance of oil as a great necessity in keeping dominance over enemies. On a battleship in the Red Sea, President Franklin D. Roosevelt met with the leader of the Saud Family (and ruler of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia), Ibn Saud. What is said to have taken place there is a pact between the US and Saudi Arabia. The Sauds would supply with United States with secure oil and the US would make sure that the Saud family stays in power.

The years progressed, and the Saud family prospered. Eventually, their rediculous amount of wealth began to make them lose touch with the people they ruled. When revolts began, they were put down by the US as their part of the deal. When Osama bin Laden surfaced, he saw, as his countrymen saw, the effects US involvement in the Saudi government. Many of bin Laden's followers are, in fact, Saudi. In order to bring balance to the power in Saudi Arabia, they had to get rid of the power that was backing it up: the US.

This is all, of course, a dolled up version of patron-clientelle relationships, but it gets the point across.


marine13, you won't get many places if you don't understand who your enemy is, where they came from, and why they believe what they believe. This is an example of US imperialism in the world and this is one of the major reasons why Osama bin Laden doesn't care for the United States. So, now you know that he isn't just a crazy towel head who blows things up for fun, maybe you might see some reasoning behind his actions, no matter how disgusting those actions may be.

[*MAFIA* KrautKiller]

QUOTE: "No i didnt say that america is better i said " we are rebels yes i know that..." we are rebels if we werent there wouldent be america."  

Your just proving my previous statements right, if you havent noticed it...
Well we were rebels am I correct?  Of course I am and if we werent we wouldnt have america.  Well if you havent noticed iraq is falling in our footsteps, they are jihading (or rebeling) and they want to keep their original iraq, thus leading into a rebellion and cival war in the future with no doubt to take back their old customs and to rid their country of the west.  
SAME EXACT THING!

TO easier explain it, PAST 13 colonies vs. England  TODAY IRAQ vs USA  Now who were we fighting?  Yes thats right the english!  And Who is iraq fighting? Correct again!  USA!  Now what did we do to kick the english rule and troops out of our country?  Kill them and sabotage Trade ships etc.  And what is iraq doing?  killing us and sabotaging fuel dumps. (Happened in the beginning of the war in iraq)

[ICEMAN]

Great replies guys!:)  Thanks Kraut, thanks MacGiraffe, and thanks Illusion for the Saud summary.


(working on my reply now...)

Okay i admit your right but what the hell you want us to do SIT DOWN AND HAVE FUKING TEA WITH THE CRAZY SON OF BITCHES I CAN BELIEVE IT NOW HERE IS MY LITTLE PLAY.

President of USA/bushhey um some one tell osama bin laden i want to have tea with him and settle this."

Do you realize that the Taliban conflict and the Saddam conflict are completely different?  The Bush administration just tried to tie them into one... and did a fairly poor job on it.  We've been friends with Saddam before in the 80's, it was possible to achieve again.  I don't think sending 300,000 troops into your country calls for sturdy grounds on the negotiation table.  I never said that we should have a tea party with Osama... I said we should go for the Taliban, despite my feelings and empathy for him.

I personally, sympathize with Osama and his cause.  The fact that I live in the US, and the fact that he won't make a compromise with us, saddens me.  He is a political mastermind who knows how to play his cards right.  I respect him.

Tommorow 1000 so on. I think this is some sign that god wants us all to live in peace or he will MAKE ARMEGEADON come quick. Now srry to get into religion but this is a eligous war maybe what we need is another crusade i really dont know as long as bombs arent going off on my streets i dont really care.

Woh there Bruce all mighty.  Hold it.  A crusade, by definition, is extensive militaristic actions for a certain cause.  Due to the Christian crusades in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries, Arabs still see it as "lets kill Muslim's!"  If I remember correctly, the code name for their operation in Iraq was originally "crusade."  Say that in Iraq, and it's the equivilent to saying "I'm going to kill all you Muslim people."  So basically, you want a crusade Marine?  You want, to take your Christian faith to an extreme, and brutally murder the Iraqi's through acts of excessive destruction.  Basically you want to be a terrorist.  You are helping me prove my point time and time again.  You say we're not terrorists... yet you use the word crusade and talk about killing them all.

You know why troops are dieing in Iraq?  You think 50 a day is a bad thing that the Iraqi's should be held responsible for?  If a Muslim man, is standing 100 yards away from you, at your house with an M16 and an armored vehicle, what are you going to do?  The Muslim man, then spots you, and starts shooting at you.  You look up from you post, and get him dead between the eyes.  Why did you shoot?  Your reason is that he was on your home turf, he was armed, and he fired at you, so you were simply defending yourself.  Is this not, the same thing, yet instead of a Muslim man in the US, a US soldier in Iraq?

But when you say dont stick up for your country thats just bull shit.

What am I supposed to stick up for?  I stick up for what is right, not what helps my ideological beliefs progress the most.

and sure go ahead i am a child i am here to leanr and express my views and if there wrong it is the elders not meaning you have to be 60 but like older ppl then me to correct me. I really dont think though that since my teacher is in the marines that i got to answer to eveything. I just felt like replying but if some way some how one them terrorist or radicals blow him up and he dies i am joining the marines and avenging his death.
Reply With Quote

That's good!:)  Education is a powerful thing.  I didn't realize you were 13, hell, I'm 16, and therefore, I'll try to not be so hard on you.  Everyone has to start somewhere, sometime, and you'll only benefit from discussions like this.


And if you would like to get into religion, I'll let you know that I am a member of the Atheist Americans of atheists.org.  I'm currently active in the Atheist community.

[*MAFIA* KrautKiller]

Seems like no one thinks in perspective

[HaVoK]

Guys....... just shut up and play some video games.