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*MAFIA* => News => Topic started by: *MAFIA* masebot1 on October 19, 2008, 11:11:03 AM

Title: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* masebot1 on October 19, 2008, 11:11:03 AM
http://www.bakersfield.com/hourly_news/story/583865.html
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* MAGGOT on October 19, 2008, 11:23:46 AM
no on 8= letting queers get married
yes on 8= not letting queers get married


If i could i would vote no on 8. I just see people voting yes on 8 as those who's only defense is 'god said.......... .' which is stupid, i could care less if there are people out there that like other dudes nasty ass's, as long as they are happy and not trying to get me to slob on there knob,im fine with them being gay.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: Ransom on October 19, 2008, 11:26:33 AM
I really cant believe in people these days.  I am a Christian and do not believe in the marriage between two people of the same sex.  Im totally fine with Civil Unions however, but the use of the word marriage is the difference for me.  Marriage is a religious word that can only mean the marriage of a man and a woman.  Now if they were fighting for Civil Unions, I would not have a problem supporting their efforts.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* MAGGOT on October 19, 2008, 11:42:08 AM


If i could i would vote no on 8. I just see people voting yes on 8 as those who's only defense is 'god said.......... .' which is stupid,

Kinda proving my point?
I really cant believe in people these days.  I am a Christian and do not believe in the marriage between two people of the same sex.  Im totally fine with Civil Unions however, but the use of the word marriage is the difference for me.  Marriage is a religious word that can only mean the marriage of a man and a woman.  Now if they were fighting for Civil Unions, I would not have a problem supporting their efforts.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: Ransom on October 19, 2008, 11:50:08 AM
Kinda proving my point?

No not really.  When reffering to the word marriage you need to take different perspectives.  I did not say that it would be bad to have Civil Unions, but the word marriage refers the the marriage between two people UNDER a certain religion.  Since it is against the Christian religion's beliefs it therefore cannot be considered a civil right.  Get it yet?
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* OUTLAW on October 19, 2008, 11:57:22 AM
I also agree on the religious definition of marriage only between a man and a woman.

Without using religious references, I just think being gay is morally wrong. I don't care about scientists saying they've viewed homosexuality by watching other animals in nature. Other animals weren't given the intelligence humans were given. I am also a strong dis-believer that people are born with genes that make them gay. If any kids are introduced into a gay environment, they might make opinions of their own and think being gay is alright. Now with the government allowing the marriage of same sex couples, more people are going to want to be gay. YAY
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* MAGGOT on October 19, 2008, 12:15:19 PM
No not really.  When reffering to the word marriage you need to take different perspectives.  I did not say that it would be bad to have Civil Unions, but the word marriage refers the the marriage between two people UNDER a certain religion.  Since it is against the Christian religion's beliefs it therefore cannot be considered a civil right.  Get it yet?

No i dont get it yet, for one main point......can other religions other than christians get married? Or would that fall under that civil union you are stating? The way i see it, it shouldnt be just a christian, god thing, i think anyone should have the right to be wed. But seeing as you all are christians, i take it you are just gonna give me some bullshit about how it is wrong and they need to be stoned to death seeing as they dont agree with your beliefs. Whatever floats your boat.Im just saying it doesn't seem very fair that hetro peeps can get married and their spouse can be added to their insurance or healthcare shit (not sure what all they can be added on,never been married,im just 17,never really thought about it) doesn't seem right.
just the way i see it
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Hellraiser on October 19, 2008, 01:57:35 PM
Fuck it, I vote Masebot is gay!  Anyway, I really don't care either way if they get married or not.  I know it is a news flash, but I am far from religious.  I don't care if they get married, live together, or just fucking die.  I just don't want them hitting on me. 
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Wasserfaller on October 19, 2008, 04:31:57 PM

If i could i would vote no on 8. I just see people voting yes on 8 as those who's only defense is 'god said.......... .' which is stupid, i could care less if there are people out there that like other dudes nasty ass's, as long as they are happy and not trying to get me to slob on there knob,im fine with them being gay.
Ditto.

My view on gay marriage is "if you don't like gay marriage, don't marry one." It's not that difficult. Ya maggot has a point there alright, everyone who keeps saying "YES ON 8!!!111" just argues that "the bible defines marriage as...blah blah."

There's already a pretty important rule we have called separation of church and state, so regardless of what your religion or your god says should or should not be done, your argument is void. Laws cannot be based on religious doctrine, so give equal rights or gtfo.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: Ransom on October 19, 2008, 05:06:07 PM
There's already a pretty important rule we have called separation of church and state, so regardless of what your religion or your god says should or should not be done, your argument is void. Laws cannot be based on religious doctrine, so give equal rights or gtfo.

So that still gives the right to the churches to reject the marriage if they please.  The government does not have the power to control the religion as long as it follows the rules of society.  Churches also have the power to reject any citizen, so therefore these marriages can not take place under religions that do not allow it.  Separation between church and state at its fullest.  Civil Unions FTW!
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Wasserfaller on October 19, 2008, 06:59:06 PM
So that still gives the right to the churches to reject the marriage if they please. 
that's called discrimination .
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Dune Surfer on October 19, 2008, 08:23:52 PM
HA HA I love it when church going people get their knickers in a twist over gay people. Grow the fuck up, they are everywhere. Shit... Ransom and Outllaw have never even dipped their pecker in a woman. This stuff really annoys you does'nt it LOL. Fly over the pond and I'll hook you up fellas.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* masebot1 on October 19, 2008, 08:35:43 PM
Who deleted my third option?
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: Ransom on October 19, 2008, 09:24:05 PM
HA HA I love it when church going people get their knickers in a twist over gay people. Grow the fuck up, they are everywhere. Shit... Ransom and Outllaw have never even dipped their pecker in a woman. This stuff really annoys you does'nt it LOL. Fly over the pond and I'll hook you up fellas.

Who gives a flying fuck if you care about other people's religious activities.  As far as I can see you are the one that needs to grow the fuck up and pull your head out of your ass.  The thing that annoys me is people like you pressing your beliefs on things that you dont need to.  Believe what you want.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: Lightning on October 19, 2008, 09:57:35 PM
Seriously does anyone really read what is involved in a proposition before they post there un-educated comments.  This isnt just about gay marriage.  I don't have a problem if people want to be gay.  But don't think if your gay, you have the right ti infringe on my constitutional rights.  That gay bashing line is just what the anti-religious liberal left wants you to think.  I will be voting yes on prop 8.  And here are the reasons why.

1.  Children in public schools will have to be taught that same-sex marriage is just as good as traditional marriage.

I don't think that public or private schools should be forced to teach something that they don't believe is fundamentally appropriate.  I also don't want the schools teaching my children something I don't agree with.

2.Churches may be sued over their tax exempt status if they refuse to allow same-sex marriage ceremonies.

Yes the church will have to follow the laws of the state of California.  Not only has the state taken away your right to speak on any type of religious excerpt at work, now they are going to come into the church and tell the church what they have to teach and accept. 

3. Ministers who preach against same-sex marriages may be sued for hate speech and risk government fines.

More state control of what the church has to say!

I understand what people are saying about ohh the bible says this and that so it should be wrong.  This is so much more than allowing people to accept gay marriage.  First and foremost, marriage was a religious creation and design.  Only in the recent past has the state created a position of justice of the peace to perform marriage ceremonies to wed people.  Prop 8 is a way to stop the all out assault on the church.  I don't understand why people are so against the one organization that gives more to the community than any other organization in the world.  Its amazing that the leaders that are pushing so hard for this prop to fail and freedom of speech, are the same ones that are actually infringing on my first amendment right to the freedom of religion.  Think about what its going to be like in 20 years when you have kids and you don't have the right to teach them any of your core values and beliefs if they don't go hand in hand with the beliefs of the state.  The creation of the civil union has provided gays and lesbians with all the fundamental rights of any one else married.  I think the real question here is "do you think its ok for for the state to tell you how to live your life and what to believe in!"  If yes then please vote no on 8


 
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* MAGGOT on October 19, 2008, 10:46:40 PM
It might just be the schools i went to, but they never even taught me that a man and woman could get married,i dont even know when they would have fit in the time to do so,so i dont understand why they would start teaching about gays all of the sudden. All the other things you stated i agree shouldn't be thought about or allowed,the churches getting sued or whatever.




The thing that annoys me is people like you pressing your beliefs on things that you dont need to.
I guess i am in the same boat as dune here so i figure i'll reply to this one. Although I don't agree with the christian ways,I dont try to start ''Pressing'' my beliefs onto those who do believe in another religion. I have been raised as a Roman Catholic and have switched to a belief known as agnosticism, the certain degree of this to which i believe would label me as a pragmatic agnostic,where i don't believe that there is any proof of a god existing or not existing making the question of his ways and rulings purely material that have no bearing on anything other than mind control (ooops is that me pressing my beliefs on you? sorry about that one). However i get people that come around on their little bicycles,helmets and suits trying to convert me to mormonism, or the people that come around talking about jehova, but i rarely,if ever, (might be where i live) have people come around trying to tell me there is no god and try to force the lack of religion onto me. Although i have a few things i feel like saying right now, i wont seeing as it might get edited by beatle for drama or cause masebots thread to be kicked to the gutter quicker than hell after a little ghb in san fransisco.




Edit:Found this on wiki which kinda described it better than what i had wrote in the crossed out section of my post above


''the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of God or gods, but since any God or gods that may exist appear unconcerned for the universe or the welfare of its inhabitants, the question is largely academic anyway.''
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* OUTLAW on October 20, 2008, 02:38:28 AM
There is literally no valid arguement on gay marriage based on government views. If gay marriage is banned, people will complain about how it discriminates and the ban will start lifting in state after state. There is nothing that can be done and we will have to live with it(think about freeing the blacks and giving woman the right to vote; it happened over a period of time.)
I won't be surprised when people fight for the right to marry their animals or objects.

The only valid dispute would be like I said before; gay marriage is morally wrong. We all know this because marriage is defined between a man and a woman. We also know that morals are a vague part of government law so they are almost meaningless. Hope people catch the drift on that.

But anyways, It's going to be something to watch when the government starts altering peoples' beliefs. Churches will start closing, maybe some riots, and school related violence on gays and others will probably increase.

Edit: Good article to read: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/februaryweb-only/2-16-41.0.html?start=1
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* MAGGOT on October 20, 2008, 03:12:53 PM
The only valid dispute would be like I said before; gay marriage is morally wrong. We all know this because marriage is defined between a man and a woman. We also know that morals are a vague part of government law so they are almost meaningless. Hope people catch the drift on that.
uummmmmm ok.

I won't be surprised when people fight for the right to marry their animals or objects.
People have already married goats and cows so meh no suprise there.

The only valid dispute would be like I said before; gay marriage is morally wrong. We all know this because marriage is defined between a man and a woman. We also know that morals are a vague part of government law so they are almost meaningless. Hope people catch the drift on that.

Uhhhh depends on EACH persons individual morals, frankly i am quite apathetic when it comes to alot of things, i REALLY am an asshole and i dont really see the problem with this whole picture. then again its confusing on how you are viewing this whole things with stating how vague morals are in the government soooooo meh?

But anyways, It's going to be something to watch when the government starts altering peoples' beliefs. Churches will start closing, maybe some riots, and school related violence on gays and others will probably increase.

Might just be that you are from canada but to tell you the truth i dont see a big deal, it wouldn't really be changing beliefs i dont think.....they are not telling you that you HAVE to become a faggot,and again the churches closing seems fine by me. Hell as it is there are what seems like a million churches in my town anyway......im voting to close them down and open food-4-less's (our name says it, our prices prove it!!!!1!, Food 4 Less!!!!21@#!11). The riot thing might be a  little bit of excitement, who doesnt love a little bit of anarchy every once in a while??? Oh and lastly, the gay related violence in schools is kind of already an ordeal as it is....least here.Face it, i wouldnt want to change for p.e./footbal/soccer/chess club/ etc. next to some one that likes dicks. ALOT of people would feel uncomfortable unless you are into that sort of thing.
being gay in school in this generation isnt really tolerated by alot of people.....at least here.



All in good fun though jesse....dont get mad at me  =(....... oh andd if none if this makes sense, im kinda out of it.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* OUTLAW on October 20, 2008, 06:08:25 PM
I'm not mad at you. I think your point is proven on how hard it is to prove gay marriage is wrong without using religious terms. It's a sticky topic to talk about lol.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Wasserfaller on October 20, 2008, 11:11:25 PM
1.  Children in public schools will have to be taught that same-sex marriage is just as good as traditional marriage.

 I also don't want the schools teaching my children something I don't agree with.

 HOLY SHIT!?!!!11 Schools telling our children that union between gays has the same value as union between heterosexuals?! WTF is with all this equality and equal rights and shit?! No seriously though, that really offends you?

2.Churches may be sued over their tax exempt status if they refuse to allow same-sex marriage ceremonies.
HUH? They can now sue people for discrimination and refusal of services based on someone's sexual orientation? I HAD NO IDEA!

3. Ministers who preach against same-sex marriages may be sued for hate speech and risk government fines.

More state control of what the church has to say!


LOL, I hate it when I get sued for teaching an audience of followers that gays are a lesser people.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: Mean Green on October 21, 2008, 04:50:29 AM
Bottom line is you can't legislate morality.  It is a matter of your heart and your juxtaposition with God.  Like it or not, believe it or not..we struggle with morality because we were born with an innate sense of morality.  We are unable to make ourselves behave properly so we try and try to force it upon ourselves and others.  It is impossible.  Once your position with God is sealed then will you begin to notice your immorality more..and sin-less. We are never sinless or perfect..but we being transformed everyday by the renewing of our minds.  Want to know how to seal your position? Just ask me.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Hellraiser on October 21, 2008, 06:26:54 AM
Bottom line is you can't legislate morality.  It is a matter of your heart and your juxtaposition with God.  Like it or not, believe it or not..we struggle with morality because we were born with an innate sense of morality.  We are unable to make ourselves behave properly so we try and try to force it upon ourselves and others.  It is impossible.  Once your position with God is sealed then will you begin to notice your immorality more..and sin-less. We are never sinless or perfect..but we being transformed everyday by the renewing of our minds.  Want to know how to seal your position? Just ask me.
  How do I seal my position?
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: Hawaii-50 on October 21, 2008, 06:47:03 AM
  How do I seal my position?

I prefer the doggy position any old day !!
Ever seen seal's fuck .... not a pretty sight !!!
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* MAGGOT on October 21, 2008, 12:43:01 PM
Want to know how to seal your position? Just ask me.

I take it has something to do with giving my money to the church so they can rape little boys and worshiping a hypocritical god.....close?? 
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: Mean Green on October 21, 2008, 01:43:51 PM
I take it has something to do with giving my money to the church so they can rape little boys and worshiping a hypocritical god.....close?? 

No even remotely close.  The problem is you guys equate religion to Church.  Going to church no more makes you a Christian than not going to church doesnt.  That is legalism and was rampant in the  Early Catholic Church and in some churches today.  The true definition of religion is to take care of the widows and orphans.  What makes you a Christian is when you acknowledge your separation from God and acceptance of a substitution of payment for you sins.  We are separated from God because he is perfectly holy and we are not.  In order to be reconciled to Him, there has to be payment for the wages of sin. Upon acceptance of the substitutionar y payment, you are now reconciled to God and you are sealed for eternity.  You become a new "creation" and your sins are forgiven and forgotten "as far as the east is from the west."  "Nothing can take you out of his righteous right hand"  and when you die, you will go to heaven and not hell.  The other "stuff" that goes with religiousity today is just that...stuff.  Church is a place for you to worship and acknowledge God in your life.  All the ritual, pomp and circumstance, and activities are not salvific efforts.  Pick up your Bible...or get one if you don't own one..and read about freedom in Christ.  Especially Romans. 

Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* MAGGOT on October 21, 2008, 02:57:57 PM
We are separated from God because he is perfectly holy and we are not. 
And look where that got him......dead.

The true definition of religion is to take care of the widows and orphans. 

couldn't find that one anywhere so meh. I take care of my widowed mother but don't believe in god....does that mean i am religious?

re·li·gion        /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1.   a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.   a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.   the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.   the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.   the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.   something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7.   religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8.   Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9.   get religion, Informal.
a.   to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b.   to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.
[Origin: 1150–1200; ME religioun (< OF religion) < L religiōn- (s. of religiō) conscientiousn ess, piety, equiv. to relig(āre) to tie, fasten (re- re- + ligāre to bind, tie; cf. ligament) + -iōn- -ion; cf. rely]


I like the red part the best....



Church is a place for you to worship and acknowledge God in your life.  All the ritual, pomp and circumstance, and activities are not salvific efforts. 

You are helping me out on this quote......I take it you shop at food-4-less too \/

Hell as it is there are what seems like a million churches in my town anyway......im voting to close them down and open food-4-less's (our name says it, our prices prove it!!!!1!, Food 4 Less!!!!21@#!11).


Pick up your Bible...or get one if you don't own one..and read about freedom in Christ.  Especially Romans. 


Not necessary..... .Why do you think i have been made into the way i am???? Tried to read it, couldn't read more than about 25 pages tell you the truth....you can look at the quote in my sig for more information... .\/



A thorough reading and understanding of the Bible is the surest path to atheism.
~Donald Morgan


uummmmmm yeah.

Like i said,i dont try to force a religion or there lack of onto anyone,which is why i am not trying to say ''lolololo you should joins us!!!1 gawds didnt existant we are teh awesum!!!@!1''
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Dune Surfer on October 21, 2008, 07:43:09 PM
The thing that annoys me is people like you pressing your beliefs on things that you dont need to.  Believe what you want.
I don't press my beliefs on anything I just speak MY mind. I would in no way get a kick out of converting people to a certain way of thinking. I was raised Roman Catholic but when I got to a certain age I couldn't help laughing in church because the priests would preach so sincerely about stuff that seemed totally obsurd and irrelevant to my world. I tried my best to be religious but I ghess I'm a natural skeptic and an asshole in the eyes of the church particularly when 4 of my best friends died in as many years I came to the conclusion that If there is a god he obviously doesn't give a crap about about my friends so I couldn't give a crap about him. Even If he does exist.

"Pressing your beliefs" Check this out, this is what I get through the post from my Italian godmother sometimes. I don't even speak Italian LOL. It kinda seems lke shes emposing her beliefs on me but I still love her all the same. She basically lives to hang around with nuns, priests and holy people.

Elvira the Italian Nun THE DVD- Over 2 hours of Elvira basically preaching that the lord is willing to forgive your sins If you accept him as your saviour. How very nice of him  ;)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z44/Dune79wooo/Elviracd.jpg)

Jesus and some following people(Postcard): "If we are all gods children, whats so special about Jesus"? ~Alan Carr
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z44/Dune79wooo/postcard.jpg)

Some other nun with a bunch of blokes hanging around hmmmmm?:
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z44/Dune79wooo/Testimoni.jpg)

Looks like Jesus's mom but I'm not sure:
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z44/Dune79wooo/girl.jpg)

I'm not a total asshole I do appreciate the sentiments of family when your moving or going away someplace and they send you stuff through the post even in holy lingo:
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z44/Dune79wooo/prayed.jpg)





Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Hellraiser on October 22, 2008, 04:16:22 AM
Like I have said many, many times before.  Religion is just something to help motivate people to what is deemed "right".  Without this false feeling of "hey when I die, if I have done right my whole life, I will go to heaven".  The fact of the matter is, when you die, you fucking die.  If you don't get cremated, then you will become word, and bug food.  Get over it.  There is no souls that magically leave your body after your heart and brain stop working.  There is no fucking "white light at the end of the tunnel".  It is all a bunch of bullshit!  I was clinically dead, and I didn't feel no heat, so nothing with horns.  I didn't see no bright fucking light.  BULLSHIT!!!!  But if you need to have these false hopes and thoughts, and that is what gets you through the day.  MORE POWER TO YA!!!  Life is to short for me to waste my time going to church and praying to someone/something that doesn't exist or fucking listen.

I understand that everyone needs a higher power, because man is to weak to the evil ways.  Use something you can see, or feel, or talk too.  That will be motivation enough.  Then, when you ask a question, you will get an answer back.  Not have to look at everything and wonder if that is the answer your God is giving you.  Religion=waste of time.  Someone pass me a beer!!!!!   
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: Mean Green on October 23, 2008, 06:40:29 AM
Not trying to argue...but here are my comments:

1.  God is not dead.  He is alive indeed.

2.  The Bible is not meant to be read like a Novel.  It is to be studied. 

3.  Please do not use the Catholic Church as the standard for Christianity.  I studied Church History for a year and "IT AINT BIBLICAL".  Meaning the catholic church structure involving the pope isnt in the Bible.  It was set up for territorial purposes and made a "hard left turn" around 400 AD.  I'd be happy to share more of that with you if youre interested.

4.  Christianity is faith based.  Faith in a savior, Jesus Christ.  I believe the scriptures, old and new.
 
5.  Scripture tells me that when I die I will be judged.  Because I believe in the substitionary death and resurrection of Christ as payment for my sins, I will be asked one question:  Do you know my Son?  God knows that I do...so it seems redundant, however the point is that my life on earth, full of sin and good deeds, will not make a rats @$$ difference in the place I go.

6.  I believe that if you do not have faith in Christ as the Savior you will go to Hell.  Regardless of your deeds on earth.  We are unable to save ourselves from hell by doing good deeds.  THAT IS BIBLICAL.

7.  You will notice that Church is no where in the narrative above.  Church was established, by God, as a place of worship.  NOT OF JUDGEMENT.  There is no purgatory.

8.  Faith and Christianity are about the condition of your heart/soul..and not about Church. Church activity occurs as a desire to worship as a result of a thankful heart. 

9.  In regards to Prop 8..Since I do not live there, Im not real sure what it requires. I can tell you that I take my job as MOM very seriously and as such have hopefully taken the important steps to ensure my children have been educated in the ways that I prefer.  I sent my kids to a private Christian school (libertychristi an.com) that partnered with my beliefs and educational goals.  That was my choice.  If the school decided to begin teaching principles that I disagreed with I would make attempts to right the wrongs and if unsuccessful would remove them from the system.
 
10.  I believe homosexuality is a sin as is lying, cheating, stealing, murder, adultery, and others...all the same.  So if Prop 8 wants to force the teaching of homosexuality and same sex marriage, I would oppose. 

11.  Hopefully none of you have ever thought that I've judged you.  I love you all just the way you are..well, not hellraiser (JK).  Hopefully soon you will know about which I am speaking and have freedom. 

KISSES!
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Hellraiser on October 23, 2008, 06:51:53 AM
So you don't love me??  That's cool.  I could have the whole world hate me, except for my kids, thier kids and my parents and would be completely fine with it. 
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: Mean Green on October 23, 2008, 07:00:28 AM
I SAID JK...noob.  Of course I love you..who doesnt?!

Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: Lightning on October 23, 2008, 06:59:21 PM
Very nice MG indeed. 

Hellraiser and the others that have anti-god beliefs, if what you say is true then you have nothing to worry about.  If its not then you will have to answer for your beliefs.  The same goes for me.  IF when I die, there is no after life, then my faith was for not.  But if my faith is true to me then I will be right where I want to be.  The big question to me is where are my kids going to end up.  Because of my beliefs and my faith I want to raise my children to have the best chance they can of going to heaven, no matter what anyone says.  I'm not against gays or lesbians.  I just believe that its simply a sin and I don't want the state pushing beliefs that I believe are sin on me or my children.  I would gladly go to hell to make sure both my kids go to heaven.  Bottom Line!   
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: Loaded on October 23, 2008, 07:19:37 PM
Simple as this... 2 Bulls in the barn will NEVER give you a Hefer (or is it heifer), 2 Hefers in the barn (well you get the point)... In short, no more cows. <<< Even the simplest person reading this tobic can understand that.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Wasserfaller on October 23, 2008, 11:07:49 PM

 
10.  I believe homosexuality is a sin as is lying, cheating, stealing, murder, adultery, and others...all the same.  So if Prop 8 wants to force the teaching of homosexuality and same sex marriage, I would oppose. 

Here's the part I don't understand...b ible preaches acceptance, give to the poor, help the sick, blah blah...but then you classify homosexuality with murderers and rapists? Seem hypocritical or it just me?

And, according to the bible, if any of those people in the sin category defined by you (lying, cheating, stealing, murder, adultery, homosexuality) were to "repent their sins" and confess to jesus, aren't they forgiven? Or is that just catholics who believe that?

Oh, and here's a pointer...IF you are trying to let others know that your religion is the right way and you want them to also believe in God like you do, DON'T tell them the things they believe in right now will send them to hell. It's kind of a put off, it's like telling someone "Ya join the army, it's way fun! Oh, but you might die." See my point?
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* MAGGOT on October 23, 2008, 11:43:23 PM
  The big question to me is where are my kids going to end up.  Because of my beliefs and my faith I want to raise my children to have the best chance they can of going to heaven, no matter what anyone says.   

As you are entitled to do so.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: LAAZ on October 24, 2008, 05:46:14 AM
Like I have said many, many times before.  Religion is just something to help motivate people to what is deemed "right".  Without this false feeling of "hey when I die, if I have done right my whole life, I will go to heaven".  The fact of the matter is, when you die, you fucking die.  If you don't get cremated, then you will become word, and bug food.  Get over it.  There is no souls that magically leave your body after your heart and brain stop working.  There is no fucking "white light at the end of the tunnel".  It is all a bunch of bullshit!  I was clinically dead, and I didn't feel no heat, so nothing with horns.  I didn't see no bright fucking light.  BULLSHIT!!!!  But if you need to have these false hopes and thoughts, and that is what gets you through the day.  MORE POWER TO YA!!!  Life is to short for me to waste my time going to church and praying to someone/something that doesn't exist or fucking listen.

I understand that everyone needs a higher power, because man is to weak to the evil ways.  Use something you can see, or feel, or talk too.  That will be motivation enough.  Then, when you ask a question, you will get an answer back.  Not have to look at everything and wonder if that is the answer your God is giving you.  Religion=waste of time.  Someone pass me a beer!!!!!   


Here is a beer with some white goo........... ...
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Hellraiser on October 24, 2008, 06:25:41 AM
Very nice MG indeed. 

Hellraiser and the others that have anti-god beliefs, if what you say is true then you have nothing to worry about.  If its not then you will have to answer for your beliefs.  The same goes for me.  IF when I die, there is no after life, then my faith was for not.  But if my faith is true to me then I will be right where I want to be.  The big question to me is where are my kids going to end up.  Because of my beliefs and my faith I want to raise my children to have the best chance they can of going to heaven, no matter what anyone says.  I'm not against gays or lesbians.  I just believe that its simply a sin and I don't want the state pushing beliefs that I believe are sin on me or my children.  I would gladly go to hell to make sure both my kids go to heaven.  Bottom Line!   
  I understand what you are saying.  One thing that many of you may not know is, when I was younger, I did go to church and even was on the choir.  Before the jokes come out, no I was never touched by a preist.  Anyway, I lost my faith many years ago.  From the shit I went through as a kid, and then the stuff I saw and went through as an adult.  Also, I believe in letting my kids chose for themselves about their faith.  Both of my kids go to church on Sundays, and even on Wednsday night bible study.  I will not push my beliefs on them.  If they want to beleive in God and all that, then that is fine.  I don't speak about religion to them, I do ask them what they learn in church, what they did and how they feel about everything.  I don't tell them my views.  They will gather their own information and go from their.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: Mean Green on October 24, 2008, 06:41:04 AM
Here's the part I don't understand...b ible preaches acceptance, give to the poor, help the sick, blah blah...but then you classify homosexuality with murderers and rapists? Seem hypocritical or it just me?
And, according to the bible, if any of those people in the sin category defined by you (lying, cheating, stealing, murder, adultery, homosexuality) were to "repent their sins" and confess to jesus, aren't they forgiven? Or is that just catholics who believe that?
Oh, and here's a pointer...IF you are trying to let others know that your religion is the right way and you want them to also believe in God like you do, DON'T tell them the things they believe in right now will send them to hell. It's kind of a put off, it's like telling someone "Ya join the army, it's way fun! Oh, but you might die." See my point?

Wasser..You are great!  I can always count on your for a well-thought out debate.  Are you Jewish?  Just asking.

1.  Bible teaches that we are to love each other..but not accept sinful behavior.  All through the Bible (old and new) you will find examples of sinful behavior being punished.  But God loves the person..always .  Even in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, God gave the people multiple chances to depart from their sinful ways and be saved.  They chose not to and were judged.  In the new testament, the story is told of a Samaritan who helps an ailing Jew along the side of the road.  The samaritans were considered unclean gentiles.  The Jewish man was taken care of and lived to praise the Samaritan for his deeds of kindness despite his supposed low position in society..that is the kind of acceptance you are referring to.  To love the sinner but hate the sin is not hypocritical.  Having children will teach you this...I will always love my sons..even when they make mistakes.  I will not, however, tolerate sinful behavior.  Yes, I used corporal punishment, but that is a topic for another day.

2. A sin is a sin is a sin.  Homosexuality is classified as a sin: Leviticus 18:22 calls homosexuality detestable, Leviticus 20:13 decrees the death penalty for those who practice homosexuality (old testament law).  During Roman control of Israel, Paul wrote the book ROMANS. He defines the inevitable downward spiral into sin.  First people reject God, next they make up their own ideas of what a god should be and do, then they fall into sin: sexual sin, greed, hatred, envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice, gossip etc.  Finally, they grow to hate God and encourage others to so. When people reject God, He "gives them over to their sin" and allows the natural consequences of their actions.  Romans 1:24a, "Therefore God gave them over in their sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another...Vers e 27: Even the women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.  And the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.  ...and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 

3. The answer to your forgiveness question is YES.  If you repent (meaning turn away from) and ask for forgiveness from God, believing that Jesus' death paid the penalty for your sinfulness, you are granted forgiveness and your sins are forgotten "as far as the east is from the west".  It is not a catholic thing....it is a Biblical thing.  (again, catholic church is not the standard for Christianity).

4.  I would never presume that I could "sway" anyone. I believe that God opens the eyes of a person's soul to reveal himself as he chooses.  I just live my life....as unperfect as it is, for I have committed many of the sins listed...(no, i will not go into details) and will continue to sin because I am nor will I ever be perfect as long as I live on this earth.  And, when asked about my faith, I give it in the appropriate manner at the appropriate time.  I attend Denton Bible Church (dentonbible.or g) and am a Bible believer.  God chooses to make himself known through multiple ways. Each of us was created by Him and as such He has given us an innate sense of who He is.  You cannot deny that. 

5.  Finally, in scripture Jesus said, " I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.  NO one comes to the Father (meaning God), except through Me."  So, yes..I believe that unless you accept God's provision in Jesus Christ, you will not go to Heaven.  Harsh?  Difficult?  Indeed. But it is the Truth. 

IF you read this entire passage ..then you deserve a big huge KISS.  :-*

LOVE YA!
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Wasserfaller on October 24, 2008, 10:16:22 AM
Wasser..You are great!  I can always count on your for a well-thought out debate.  Are you Jewish?  Just asking.
Haha, right back at you, I like to be more informed on the subject. No I don't practice Judaism, I myself am agnostic, but my grandmother is Jewish and quite a few relatives are. Two of my mom's cousins, who moved to San Fran when they immigrated (go figure) are also homosexual, which is why I'm pretty involved when it comes to this subject.

5.  Finally, in scripture Jesus said, " I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.  NO one comes to the Father (meaning God), except through Me."  So, yes..I believe that unless you accept God's provision in Jesus Christ, you will not go to Heaven.  Harsh?  Difficult?  Indeed. But it is the Truth. 

IF you read this entire passage ..then you deserve a big huge KISS.  :-*

LOVE YA!

One thing I'm trying to understand; on an episode of "30 Days" with Norman Spurlock, they visited a gay/lesbian accepting church in the Castro District in San Francisco. The preacher at this specific church was a lesbian, and her comment on the subject was something to the effect of...

"I'm pretty sure God will judge us on more important things throughout our lives, like helping the poor/sick/needy, volunteering time and effort to help others, instead of focusing on our sex life."

So my question is, don't you think there are more important things that people do in their lives? I mean, focusing on how someone has sex just seems really, really, really trivial in the whole scheme of things, at least to me. It's kind of like saying "oh ya, Sister Margaret is going to hell because she had a thing for chicks, regardless of all the help to the underprivilege d and needy she provided, that whole love for the same sex thing really just pushed her over the edge sending her to hell."

Here's that episode of 30 Days, I strongly recommend watching it.

You need to sign in once you click the link, but i already made a public account for everyone to watch it on...

http://www.hulu.com/watch/5293/30-days-straight-man-in-a-gay-world

Username: mafiaowns
Password: mafiaowns
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* ßlåkjáx on October 25, 2008, 05:36:59 PM
HOLY SHIT!?!!!11 Schools telling our children that union between gays has the same value as union between heterosexuals?! WTF is with all this equality and equal rights and shit?! No seriously though, that really offends you?
HUH? They can now sue people for discrimination and refusal of services based on someone's sexual orientation? I HAD NO IDEA!

LOL, I hate it when I get sued for teaching an audience of followers that gays are a lesser people.

You are honestly telling me that when you are putting your children into a public school you want them to learn that homosexuality is accepted and that your little 7 year old, Bert, can have sex with his best buddy, Ernie, and he wont be looked down upon?  And don't give me the bullshit answer "They don't teach that kind of stuff in schools."  You know the source I learned the from most in school?  From my FRIENDS.  They teach you more than any fucking school ever could.  So if you honestly believe that you wouldn't care that your son or daughter could, and by the looks of it most likely would, be gay in the future doesn't bother you? Bullshit.

Heres there down to earth truth... I FUCKING HATE faggots. Sure, I am sure they hate me too. Hell why shouldn't they? They believe I am looking down at them because I care if they get married, its not the principle of actually them being married that bothers me.  Do you think I would care about how some homo lives his life? No, I could give a shit less as long as it doesn't have an impact on my life.  Here is the real question... Why would ANY guy want a fucking cock, penis, dick, shlong, disgusting pulsing veiny purple headed semen spitter, shoved in there ass? Something terribly wrong must have happened to them in there early years am I right? No man or woman is born gay, PERIOD.  If they were then there would be homosexual animals, so prove me wrong.  And what does being homosexual do good for the community?  You think anything good can come out of being gay? Really? The only good thing that comes from it is aids cause every mother fucker who take a dick in the ass should die for stressing my my ideal reality, call me selfish.  Keep it to yourself, no one likes to see you and your boyfriend making out in the movie theater.  What kind of an impact do you think that  has on children? And what type of fag doesn't want everyone know that they are gay? Hell, you think they do it to feel better because they have had a "tough" life? FUCK NO! They do it for the attention, even if subconsciously . Don't believe me, I could care less. That is the truth, don't even try to dispute me on that.  The problems of queers reaches much farther then people not having rights, it is an ECONOMIC problem.  Prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Wasserfaller on October 25, 2008, 11:18:29 PM
  If they were then there would be homosexual animals, so prove me wrong. 

Okay.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

lol
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* ßlåkjáx on October 26, 2008, 01:43:59 PM
Okay.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

lol
Even so, you cannot compare that to human behavior.  Birds can't get aids from fucking birds.  So you are telling me that you believe that someone can be BORN (straight out of the womb) a homosexual? Hah
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* NiTrO on October 26, 2008, 05:36:10 PM
well said hell. just dont touch a straight man...gay fucks...
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Wasserfaller on October 26, 2008, 07:48:07 PM
Even so, you cannot compare that to human behavior.  Birds can't get aids from fucking birds.  So you are telling me that you believe that someone can be BORN (straight out of the womb) a homosexual? Hah
I think you're assuming, I didn't say any of that. All I did was prove you wrong about homosexuality not existing in nature, and only in humans.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Capsloc on October 28, 2008, 08:43:40 PM
Holy mother of.....

I'm too lazy to post my religious view on this one.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Scooby on November 04, 2008, 12:13:06 AM
Yes on Prop 8!   Don't let the queers win.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: End on November 04, 2008, 12:36:10 AM
Haha, I'm with Rosh on this one.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Wasserfaller on November 04, 2008, 05:49:48 PM
Quote
You are honestly telling me that when you are putting your children into a public school you want them to learn that homosexuality is accepted


I must have missed this part of your post.

None of that is true. The whole "teach children in the second grade about homosexuality" was made-up, and that was debunked a while ago by the california school board president Jack OConnell.

"She argues that Proposition 8's defeat will have no affect on education — a message that's been echoed by Jack O'Connell, California's superintendent of schools."

Yay for lies, paid for by the Yes on 8 crew!
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* ßlåkjáx on November 08, 2008, 12:41:15 PM

I must have missed this part of your post.

None of that is true. The whole "teach children in the second grade about homosexuality" was made-up, and that was debunked a while ago by the california school board president Jack OConnell.

"She argues that Proposition 8's defeat will have no affect on education — a message that's been echoed by Jack O'Connell, California's superintendent of schools."

Yay for lies, paied for by the Yes on 8 crew!
Arguments shot down by facts, don't believe everything you hear.  Of course she would argue that, she is probably a dike bitch herself.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Wasserfaller on November 08, 2008, 02:39:56 PM
Arguments shot down by facts, don't believe everything you hear.  Of course she would argue that, she is probably a dike bitch herself.
Are you kidding me? Don't believe everything you hear? Nowhere in the prop. 8 legislation does it say "we will teach gayness in schools to 6 year olds."

YOU definitely need to get your facts right. Argument shot down by facts? Seriously man, trying READING something. The President of the California School Board PROVED that was never going to happen, and the "YES ON 8" people had to subsequently pull their advertising campaign that claimed "no on prop. 8 would teach homosexuality is an acceptable thing to 2nd graders."

It had nothing to do with schooling, here's the actual proposition 8 legal document, no bias at all, this is what it says.

http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/title-sum/prop8-title-sum.htm

Christ cakes, sometimes people just don't bother looking into what they are they're talking about.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* ßlåkjáx on November 08, 2008, 04:58:32 PM
Are you kidding me? Don't believe everything you hear? Nowhere in the prop. 8 legislation does it say "we will teach gayness in schools to 6 year olds."

YOU definitely need to get your facts right. Argument shot down by facts? Seriously man, trying READING something. The President of the California School Board PROVED that was never going to happen, and the "YES ON 8" people had to subsequently pull their advertising campaign that claimed "no on prop. 8 would teach homosexuality is an acceptable thing to 2nd graders."

It had nothing to do with schooling, here's the actual proposition 8 legal document, no bias at all, this is what it says.

http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/title-sum/prop8-title-sum.htm

Christ cakes, sometimes people just don't bother looking into what they are they're talking about.
God damn you are ignorant.  I never said anything about teachers teaching children that it is ok to be a cock sucker. READ my first post in this subject, what I said was that when something like this proposition passes, SOCIETY accepts it. And when SOCIETY accepts something it does it taught to the youth, not by teachers, but by SOCIETY. Get it? Who did you learn about sex from? If I'm guessing correct, you were like me and you learned about stuff like that from your friends, or TV, correct? So Maybe you should start thinking a LOT more broad about subjects, and not just take in all the bullshit the media throws into your ear. You have a fucking brain for a reason, its there so you can think for YOURSELF.
Title: Re: Prop 8.
Post by: *MAFIA* Wasserfaller on November 08, 2008, 11:58:40 PM
God damn you are ignorant.  I never said anything about teachers teaching children that it is ok to be a cock sucker.
Oh, you mean like right here?

You are honestly telling me that when you are putting your children into a public school you want them to learn that homosexuality is accepted and that your little 7 year old, Bert, can have sex with his best buddy, Ernie, and he wont be looked down upon?
Smooth.