*MAFIA* Forums
*MAFIA* => News => Topic started by: *MAFIA* MisfiT on April 05, 2010, 01:32:26 PM
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Calling it a case of "collateral murder," the WikiLeaks Web site today released harrowing until-now secret video of a U.S. Army Apache helicopter in Baghdad in 2007 repeatedly opening fire on a group of men that included a Reuters photographer and his driver -- and then on a van that stopped to rescue one of the wounded men.
None of the members of the group were taking hostile action, contrary to the Pentagon's initial cover story; they were milling about on a street corner. One man was evidently carrying a gun, though that was and is hardly an uncommon occurrence in Baghdad.
Reporters working for WikiLeaks determined that the driver of the van was a good Samaritan on his way to take his small children to a tutoring session. He was killed and his two children were badly injured.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0&feature=player_embedded#
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Well its not the 1st time it has happened!! O0
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Wow. Just..wow. Absolutely terrible. "I got one with an AK-47." Bullshit, not unless that AK-47 can take pictures.
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War is hell, shit happens on both sides.
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War is hell, shit happens on both sides.
I agree, but I don't think that it's right to open fire on innocent civilians.
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I agree, but I don't think that it's right to open fire on innocent civilians.
You think? So do I. But how can our guys (not just the US, all Allied Countries in the war zone) tell who are civilians or not? I don't see bad guy colors being shown, I don't see a big red cross on the van. There are rules of war and with the wars we are in right now in the middle east, those rules are not nearly followed, if at all by the bad guys.
Sorry, I don't feel sorry for anyone that is hurt that shouldn't be... If "plainclothes" people look like bad guys, so be it. There is no way in hell under the stress of battle someone is going to tell if that is a gun strap or a camera strap. And even after watching the vid that the gunner was seeing as well, I would have asked to shoot as well at the group and also the van.
And like all vids and so called "news" you only see what they what you to see to make the news. Ok two good guys (so they say) were killed, what about the other 12 or so? Nothing was said about them. You have 2 reporters that "could have been" with bad guys trying to get that side of the fight, well what in the hell is going to happen if you are with the other side when there is a war going on... That's right, you can get a bullet just as fast as the bad guy will/would. So in other words, if you don't want to get shot, stay away from the war zone. OR at least follow the rules of war and mark yourself as a bad guy, ambulance, reporter.
Again shit happens on both side.
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(http://i40.tinypic.com/34t4vok.jpg)
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People who have not been to war should not talk about those who have. You have no idea what goes through someones head in situations. Shit happens, get over it.
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You think? So do I. But how can our guys (not just the US, all Allied Countries in the war zone) tell who are civilians or not? I don't see bad guy colors being shown, I don't see a big red cross on the van. There are rules of war and with the wars we are in right now in the middle east, those rules are not nearly followed, if at all by the bad guys.
Sorry, I don't feel sorry for anyone that is hurt that shouldn't be... If "plainclothes" people look like bad guys, so be it. There is no way in hell under the stress of battle someone is going to tell if that is a gun strap or a camera strap. And even after watching the vid that the gunner was seeing as well, I would have asked to shoot as well at the group and also the van.
And like all vids and so called "news" you only see what they what you to see to make the news. Ok two good guys (so they say) were killed, what about the other 12 or so? Nothing was said about them. You have 2 reporters that "could have been" with bad guys trying to get that side of the fight, well what in the hell is going to happen if you are with the other side when there is a war going on... That's right, you can get a bullet just as fast as the bad guy will/would. So in other words, if you don't want to get shot, stay away from the war zone. OR at least follow the rules of war and mark yourself as a bad guy, ambulance, reporter.
Again shit happens on both side.
True. It is truly amazing (in a bad way) how we can have a war (World War II) where we knew who we were fighting (Nazis and the Japanese, and I guess the Italians too but they didn't do shit) and where they were but then just 25 years later, we can have a war where the enemy is nowhere and everywhere at the same time (Vietnam). I completely understand your point, and I agree with you (after reading what you wrote and thinking about it for a little). I guess the only part of it that makes me feel a little disgusted is the 2 kids who got seriously injured.
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People who have not been to war should not talk about those who have. You have no idea what goes through someones head in situations. Shit happens, get over it.
i second that intill those people or indeed you lot. have been in these or worse sit-reps your opinion doesn't count.....
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Thunder... The kids are the part that is the ace in the hole for the media (well lets say it, anit-war people as well), everyone (myself included) would never want to hurt or see a child hurt... Why didn't the media talk about the other 12 or so that were shot down? But yet, they added the 2 children, to pull at your heart strings.
I would bet, if the gunners and people that were in charge knew there was a child in that van the clear to shoot orders would have never been asked for or given (the gunner was hurt with the news, IMO, you could tell by the pilot's voice as well)... Look at the video and see how far they zoomed to that section of the kids, there would be no way in hell for anyone to know they were there, even on foot at 25m it would have been hard to see them, when fighting, heart pumping 200x a minute, tunnel vision, bullets flying at you and so on. There is just no way you can look over every inch of a battlefield, it's just impossible. But it sure would be allot easier looking for someone in a battledress of the country your fighting instead of wondering if the next person in a white head dress will cut your head off or blow you/themselves up, when they pass by you.
I feel for those guys over there fighting, all of "our" allied, really I do. It hurts to kill someone, but hurts 2x as hard wondering if that person you killed should have been.
Roshan... The action of that soldier is what dose happen, they care very much for those kids.
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Roshan... The action of that soldier is what dose happen, they care very much for those kids.
I know, Loaded. My sister is an MP in Afghanistan right now and we have sent over bags of candy and other things kids would like. She patrols a small village so it's nice to see that poor kids over there are getting something nice. That pic is just to provide a little humor, like almost every single pic I post here.
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A gun ho approach to dealing with missions is a quick fix and seemingly effective method of dealing with the problems in hand but you can guarantee "colateral damage". The US army repeatedly shows a blatent disreguard for innocent human life over and over which is captured and screened by the media which has become to be a total embarassment for pretty much all western armed forces. It makes you wander how loose US military protocol has become to allow for such events particulary when we're involved in a conflict associated with terrorism where we must atleast appear to be holding the moral highground.
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Dune & England just got owned.
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Wow! You can can tell your army man that no matter how stressed, "scarred" you are it doesn't give you a license to commit atrocities and murder under a banner.
you are uninformed or have been given false information to sway your opinion
I seriously couldn't have antisipated a more predictable, robotic and contrieved response from somone whos been indoctrinated into the military and latterly brainwashed.
I know I have free speech, do you?
I expect more from you MG, pull your socks up.
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Wow! You can can tell your army man that no matter how stressed, "scarred" you are it doesn't give you a license to commit atrocities and murder under a banner.I seriously couldn't have antisipated a more predictable, robotic and contrieved response from somone whos been indoctrinated into the military and latterly brainwashed.
I know I have free speech, do you?
I expect more from you MG, pull your socks up.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/n399ue.png)
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I really don't want to be involved in this situation, but I will put a bit in. First off, you can look at this two different ways.
1. As a private citizen, like most of you are then you will see all the bad that the news wants you to see. How many of you have been to Afghanistan (I say that because that is the only place I have been, but I have been there 2 times)? I think only 1 other person then myself, maybe 2. I ask you that because in the year and a half I left and came back, I saw major change. Did the news report on the good? Have you heard in the news all the times we go to schools with supplies for the children? Have you heard about the millions, yes millions, of dollars we spend to help that economy each month. I know I was shelling out over 25k to locals a month that I signed for personally. I have not heard about all the schools we have built, the roads we have created, the towns we have freed. Also, have you heard on the news how many "civialians" that the Taliban kill each day? Probably not if they are not a military person that was caught, or a figure head of some state. I will tell you that the Taliban will kill a person quicker and more fierce then us. Yeah we have killed innocent people, so have they. I say we because all the nations that are in both theaters of operation kill innocent, however, since it is basically America's war, we get the blame all the time. For each theater of operation we all have different rules of engagement. People know that we are over there killing enemies, and most of our enemies are trying to kill us. What are they killing us with? GUNS, RPGS AND ROADSIDE BOMBS. Tell me, if someone was looking for someone who is carrying a gun, and has the autority to kill said person, would you carry a gun and risk getting shot? Probably not. I feel sorry for the kids, they might not have had anything to do with terrorism. Might not.
The other way to look at it is through the eyes of the people on ground. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't a convoy coming through? Now that drone, or whatever it was, was put in the sky to help protect said convoy. The operators saw individuals with weapons to include and RPG, so they followed their rules of engagement and protected the convoy. Would you prefer the people on ground to ask everyone who carrys a gun over there what side they are on? Because that won't work, because as soon as you get within eye shot of them, they are shooting at you. It wasn't the guy who fired fault. He sent up the SITREP and got confirmation to engage from hire up. Was it a mess up? Yes. Innocent people died, however, how many thousand of innocent people died under the tyranny of Hussan, and how many thousands of innocent died from 9/11? I mean, people die, espeically in urban combat. Shit happens, all we can do is learn. It may be a shitty way to look at it, but I am sure if they didn't shot them, and they attacked that convoy and killed soldiers then we would have gotten flack for not protecting soldiers. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
War is ugly. It isn't meant to be pretty, if it was, it would be called a tea party not war. Till you lived a day in one of those soldiers whose boots are on ground, then you really shouldn't pass judgement. Just saying.
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*stands and applauds hellraiser*
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*stands and applauds hellraiser*
Just what is your ignorant ass applauding at bob?
This is a fundamental debate about moral standards. I love you like a brother Hell but even if your held down in the dirt under enemy fire there's no excuse for flying off the handle and recklessly opening fire on innocent civillians. It doesn't matter how battle hardened you are from any conflict, your ultimately responsible for maintaining a constant degree of professionalis m and must know you have peoples lives in your hands. I believe you do and and as a US army Seargent teacher I'm sure you hear these horror stories about US army conduct all the time and are no doubt slightly embarassed yourself from time to time.
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Just what is your ignorant ass applauding at bob?
This is a fundamental debate about moral standards. I love you like a brother Hell but even if your held down in the dirt under enemy fire there's no excuse for flying off the handle and recklessly opening fire on innocent civillians. It doesn't matter how battle hardened you are from any conflict, your ultimately responsible for maintaining a constant degree of professionalis m and must know you have peoples lives in your hands. I believe you do and and as a US army Seargent teacher I'm sure you hear these horror stories about US army conduct all the time and are no doubt slightly embarassed yourself from time to time.
I will not say embarassed, however, I do understand that stuff does happen. This is not the first war where innocent people have died. They have in every war that has been fought through out the years. Does it make it right? No. Well if you want to think about innocent people dieing, what about all the soldiers of the nations that are trying to help free Iraq and Afghanistan from the dictators and the tyrants that held them under their thumbs, who kill innocent people whenever they like. I mean aren't they innocent? All they are doing is trying to help out nations and bring them the freedoms that every man and women is born with. Have these soldiers done anything to deserve to die for another nation? No. However, they chose to help out because they want to bring said freedoms to a nation and it's people. War is ugly and shit happens. As I said, the news reports the negatives. News reporters want the world to be worried, so that way you stay tuned in. Would you continue to watch a news report if all the news was great? It is safe to say, probably not. You will be happy and move on with your day all happy because everything is perfect. However, if you get bad news, you will tune in more to see either the progression or how bad it actually gets. They want you to think their way. I learned from the first time I deployed to not watch the news. They reported on all the negatives, and yes they are true, however, the positives that we are doing in these nations out weights these negatives. I am not saying taking an innocent human life should be down played, but as I said, they had freakin guns when they know there is a war in their nation and the "foreign invaders" are killing people who have guns because we think they are trying or might use them against us.
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Just what is your ignorant ass applauding at bob?
This is a fundamental debate about moral standards. I love you like a brother Hell but even if your held down in the dirt under enemy fire there's no excuse for flying off the handle and recklessly opening fire on innocent civillians. It doesn't matter how battle hardened you are from any conflict, your ultimately responsible for maintaining a constant degree of professionalis m and must know you have peoples lives in your hands. I believe you do and and as a US army Seargent teacher I'm sure you hear these horror stories about US army conduct all the time and are no doubt slightly embarassed yourself from time to time.
You do realize we're talking about a war right? and you're debating moral standards? LOL. Do u think the taliban and other terrorist organizations really have moral standards and wouldnt have done the same?
And i'm sure those photographers also have to maintain a degree of professionalis m, and walking in a large group out in the open like that with no security or distinguising marks i'm sure is not very professional.
The whole thing was an accident, the soldiers did their job and unfortunately in doing so killed a couple civilians. Like Hellraiser said, its war, these things happen. There are no morals involved.
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You do realize we're talking about a war right? and you're debating moral standards? LOL. Do u think the taliban and other terrorist organizations really have moral standards and wouldnt have done the same?
So your saying because the Taliban and other terrorists have no quarms or any problem with killing civillians, the US army should behave like the Taliban do in combat and shoot civillians? So these terrorists who blow up market places filled with civillians with bombs have the same moral standards as the US army do during wartime? Because I doubt the US army is ordered to place I.E.D's on dirtpaths to blow up goat herders.There are no morals involved
There are no moral standards during war? The Geneva convention and all warcrime trials are all a myth then I suppose? Half the excuse for the invasion of Iraq in the end was because Saddam and half his bath party were guilty of "war crimes". No moral standards during war w/e
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I doubt the US army is ordered to place I.E.D's on dirtpaths to blow up goat herders.
They had BETTER not be.
(http://moretalk.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/pettitte-goat.jpg)
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So your saying because the Taliban and other terrorists have no quarms or any problem with killing civillians, the US army should behave like the Taliban do in combat and shoot civillians? So these terrorists who blow up market places filled with civillians with bombs have the same moral standards as the US army do during wartime? Because I doubt the US army is ordered to place I.E.D's on dirtpaths to blow up goat herders.There are no moral standards during war? The Geneva convention and all warcrime trials are all a myth then I suppose? Half the excuse for the invasion of Iraq in the end was because Saddam and half his bath party were guilty of "war crimes". No moral standards during war w/e
You seem to be forgetting alot of other nations there. Yes America has the most soldiers there, however, I know the first time I was there, the locals feared the Romainians, and the last time I was there, they feared the Canadians. Yes I said they feared the Canadians, lol.
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When other countries see as many deaths as the US, then go ahead and bitch and cry about war time mistake, until then get over it.
Iraq Coalition Military Fatalities By Year
Year US UK Other Total
2003 486 53 41 580
2004 849 22 35 906
2005 846 23 28 897
2006 822 29 21 872
2007 904 47 10 961
2008 314 4 4 322
2009 149 1 0 150
2010 20 0 0 20
Total 4390 179 139 4708
Afghanistan Coalition Military Fatalities By Year
Year US UK Other Total
2001 12 0 0 12
2002 49 3 17 69
2003 48 0 9 57
2004 52 1 7 60
2005 99 1 31 131
2006 98 39 54 191
2007 117 42 73 232
2008 155 51 89 295
2009 316 108 96 520
2010 91 36 21 148
Total 1037 281 397 1715
When other countries deploy as many soldiers as the US, then go ahead and bitch and cry about war time mistake, until then get over it. Only then will you see the same mistakes being shown on the news by other countries. When you have 80%+ (the USA) more then the other countries fighting in a war zone what in the hell do you think is going to happen, mistakes.
I am just sick of others pointing fingers at the USA for what happens over there, the bad, never the good and it doesn't help when the countries they live in have a few hundred, a few thousand or NONE in the same war zone. No place to talk, none what so ever.
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parts of a story showing what selective editing can do.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/07/military-raises-questions-credibility-leaked-iraq-shooting-video/?test=latestnews
The problem, according to many who have viewed the video, is that WikiLeaks appears to have done selective editing that tells only half the story. For instance, the Web site takes special care to slow down the video and identify the two photographers and the cameras they are carrying.
However, the Web site does not slow down the video to show that at least one man in that group was carrying a rocket-propelled grenade launcher, a clearly visible weapon that runs nearly two-thirds the length of his body.
WikiLeaks also does not point out that at least one man was carrying an AK-47 assault rifle. He is seen swinging the weapon below his waist while standing next to the man holding the RPG.
"It gives you a limited perspective," said Capt. Jack Hanzlik, a spokesman for U.S. Central Command. "The video only tells you a portion of the activity that was happening that day. Just from watching that video, people cannot understand the complex battles that occurred. You are seeing only a very narrow picture of the events."
Hanzlik said images gathered during a military investigation of the incident show multiple weapons around the dead bodies in the courtyard, including at least three RPGs.
"Our forces were engaged in combat all that day with individuals that fit the description of the men in that video. Their age, their weapons, and the fact that they were within the distance of the forces that had been engaged made it apparent these guys were potentially a threat," Hanzlik said.
Military officials have also pointed out that the men in the video are the only people visible on those streets. That indicated something was going on and that these individuals still felt they could walk freely, one official told Fox News.
Julian Assange, a WikiLeaks editor, acknowledged to Fox News in an interview Tuesday evening that "it's likely some of the individuals seen in the video were carrying weapons."
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parts of a story showing what selective editing can do.
FOX News.
Well, there's the problem Mano.
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Hey wait, where is France on that list Reloaded???????
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Hey wait, where is France on that list Reloaded???????
Iraq Coalition Military Fatalities By Year
Year US UK Other FRANCE Total
2003 486 53 41 0 580
2004 849 22 35 0 906
2005 846 23 28 0 897
2006 822 29 21 0 872
2007 904 47 10 0 961
2008 314 4 4 0 322
2009 149 1 0 0 150
2010 20 0 0 0 20
Total 4390 179 139 UNWANTED 4708
Afghanistan Coalition Military Fatalities By Year
Year US UK Other FRANCE Total
2001 12 0 0 0 12
2002 49 3 17 0 69
2003 48 0 9 0 57
2004 52 1 7 0 60
2005 99 1 31 0 131
2006 98 39 54 0 191
2007 117 42 73 0 232
2008 155 51 89 0 295
2009 316 108 96 0 520
2010 91 36 21 0 148
Total 1037 281 397 UNWANTED 1715
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Hey wait, where is France on that list Reloaded???????
Go to 1:30 for the short version but I would watch it all.
The French just don't have the heart to fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edPiYNyxfKc
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When you have 80%+ (the USA) more then the other countries fighting in a war zone what in the hell do you think is going to happen, mistakes.
Ok peeps...you heard it here first. You said that not me Loaded. So your saying we can guarantee mistakes when the US has a higher percentage of people on the ground?
Does this explain why 25% of the first US casualties during desert stom were from US friendly fire? I'm guessing there were a few Americans "bitching and crying" like Europeans then. I ghess they had no place to talk either.
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Yes... Oh by the way, the next time you guys send over one of your little royals, don't, it took all 500 UK guys you had there to protect him.
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Ok peeps...you heard it here first. You said that not me Loaded. So your saying we can guarantee mistakes when the US has a higher percentage of people on the ground?
Does this explain why 25% of the first US casualties during desert stom were from US friendly fire? I'm guessing there were a few Americans "bitching and crying" like Europeans then. I ghess they had no place to talk either.
(http://i39.tinypic.com/1zmzb6a.jpg)
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Yes... Oh by the way, the next time you guys send over one of your little royals, don't, it took all 500 UK guys you had there to protect him.
It didn't seem he really wanted any rechognition or needed any protection until this: However, news of his deployment ignited a diplomatic row, as Sir Richard condemned Australian, German and American websites for exposing the Prince's secret role
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1580217/Prince-Harry-fighting-Taliban-in-Afghanistan.html
You can hardly accuse him of being a "little royal" for being the first one to put himself on the frontline for 25 years. If only for the 10 weeks he was allowed to by the international media.
I'd like to see the size of the entourage of one of your presidents siblings if they ever went into combat.
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I'd like to see the size of the entourage of one of your presidents siblings if they ever went into combat.
Did you really think that Prince Harry would be allowed to fight after joining? Of course not. No person as well-known as him is going to be allowed to fight. Think of what would happen if he was captured? Imagine if there was a negotiation if he was to be captured. Do you think that the UK would let him die if they refused an order from the Taliban? Imagine if the Taliban said "remove all your forces or Harry dies." What do you think your country is going to do? They are probably going to send in 1000 men to try and rescue him and some will probably die just to rescue one person.
Some people who are in ties with the President or VP or someone else famous:
Beau Biden
Track Palin
I don't think those 2 guys have hundreds of other soldiers whose only job is to protect them.
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i think its time for you guys to stop as you don't have the foggiest
this "argument" is pointless you haven't been to either Iraq or Afghanistan. excluding hell so all of you are just quoting or say bullshit.
and yes HRH Prince Flg Off Harry Windsor and HRH Prince Flt Lt William Windsor have both been to Afghanistan.
trust me when i say this they were both there for 6 months each and did the jobs they both signed up for.
that means they didn't have 1000's of troops looking after them maybe like 5 each.
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i think its time for you guys to stop as you don't have the foggiest
this "argument" is pointless you haven't been to either Iraq or Afghanistan. excluding hell so all of you are just quoting or say bullshit.
Dempy, Dempy...If I'm not wrong you were only 11 years old during the 11th of sept bombings and the beginning of all this conflict. This has now spanned into your generation but to suggest I don't know the foggiest is ignorant. For the past ten years of my life, all the way through college, univeristy and adult life (while you were in school)this conflict has been oviously a major concern and political discussion for me and all my peers. I joined the air cadets in 1993 as a young teen like you and had a spat but it wasn't my thing. You may have gone on to join the RAF to Afganistan, polished your rifle (in both repects) stayed in a tent and become a glorified taxi service. But no-one tells me what I can't argue about, that's my given right.
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(http://i39.tinypic.com/1zmzb6a.jpg)
fucking LOL!
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yes that maybe so i was in school the day it happened and watched it on the news all day i was 11 yes u were what 20-21
also mate i wasn't attacking you. and when i say you don't know the foggiest im revering to what go's on in war mate as in what happens on the ground when you pinned down in the arse end off the green zone with some really shady ana running around going nuts
with bullets pinging all around hitting the dirt beside you. or feeling the vortex as a rpg flies over the top of your head at 2 meters.
and also while you are in sitreps like this its hard to come to term with things
yes im not saying what these American pilots did was right nor am i saying it was wrong you can clearly see in the video
that the guys they are shooting at are not armed even a civie can see this the things (cameras) they have in there hands don't resemble ak47s in the slightest. what they did is what i call a heat of the moment thing they see a group of what they think is bad guys all bundled together they think wow we can save lives here if we kill these guys.
instead what the should of done was get better recon and calm down abit
trust me when you see a enemy and your in the position to fire and kill the target thats all u think about doing ive been there anyway i can go on for hours but id rather not get into it ive said my piece now let it die
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I honestly dont give a damn about the "war" or anything going on in it....
1000th post in the 100th topic in the news section.
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Well if you want to think about innocent people dieing, what about all the soldiers of the nations that are trying to help free Iraq and Afghanistan from the dictators and the tyrants that held them under their thumbs, who kill innocent people whenever they like. I mean aren't they innocent?
No offense intended hellraiser, and this isn't targeted towards you...but no one gave two shits about the dictators in Iraq and Afghanistan until we blamed 9/11 on them. I doubt most high schoolers could point out Iraq or Afghanistan on a map before 2001. No one cared about Iraq pre-9/11, and no one cares about the dozens of military dictators in Africa, Burma, Central America, ect...
We all try to play it off as protecting innocent people from tyrants, but Iraq was pretty much off of our radar until shit went down 9 years ago and we tried to link them to the trade center attacks.
in before "OMG IRAQ CAUSED 9/11!!!111" (9/11 terrorists were saudi's, and no WMDs were found in Iraq. We were lied to, and now thousands are dying.)
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No offense intended hellraiser, and this isn't targeted towards you...but no one gave two shits about the dictators in Iraq and Afghanistan until we blamed 9/11 on them. I doubt most high schoolers could point out Iraq or Afghanistan on a map before 2001. No one cared about Iraq pre-9/11, and no one cares about the dozens of military dictators in Africa, Burma, Central America, ect...
We all try to play it off as protecting innocent people from tyrants, but Iraq was pretty much off of our radar until shit went down 9 years ago and we tried to link them to the trade center attacks.
in before "OMG IRAQ CAUSED 9/11!!!111" (9/11 terrorists were saudi's, and no WMDs were found in Iraq. We were lied to, and now thousands are dying.)
No offense taken, however there are a couple things I too would like to point out.
You have valid points. However, how do you know that there where no WMDs found? Oh, because the news reported it. Maybe a white house rep said that none were found as well. However, in my years in the military I have came across several thousand other soldiers and in meeting some of them I have learned this. There were WMDs over there. Maybe not the chemical/nuclear ones that we where so scared about, but they had many types of munitions that they reported to NATO that they did not have. How do I know this? One of the gentlemen I met on my last deployment was with a team that went around Iraq to different parts, mostly ones where WMDs where reported at being at, and inspected the areas. He found many caches of chemicals and missiles amongst other things. I am trying to be a vague as possible but still prove that you shouldn't listen to everything the news reports on. They tell you what they want you to believe and they do not report the whole truth.
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They are trying to find the person or people who leaked the video. What would the "punishment" be?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/07/27/afghanistan.wikileaks.investigation/index.html?hpt=T1
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Because we are at War with the people/countries he has past the info about... It could be military treason, punishment, death, but most likely, 130 years in jail and a big butt hurt from the other Mil guys in Leavenworth.
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Here's the hacker who turned him in:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/29/lamo.profile.wikileaks/index.html?hpt=C1
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And there is person #2. My guess, "I helped you with turning in the other guy, don't convict me for breaking into the system".
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Because this things not over yet, he should have had ethical personal conflict. I mean in Monowar's report, on page 3, the reporter sent out a blurb "there may have arms in the area" and I think he should have realized that he didn't have all the facts. Do you think many countries, including the US, have exit plans for this public opinion:
From Beatle's CNN -US report
"The person alleged to be Manning wrote to Lamo: "i don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore... i only a plethora of states acting in self interest... with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless ".
Where can I pitch to give more candy for the soldiers to bond with the kids and families? I know three three guys in Afghanistan now and all are in the US Air force. Mabey send it to them and let them give it out as needed huh? I hope everyone you know and I know comes home safe.