*MAFIA* Forums
*MAFIA* => Flame => Topic started by: Rahl on December 12, 2005, 11:14:13 PM
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That's right, Uncle Rahl needs you! Or rather, his friend could use the assistance. A buddy of mine was in a bit of an edit war on wikipedia with some yahoo who refuses to believe .999 repeating equals 1 when taken to infinite precision. Right now, the page is locked from further edits while a vote is tabulated to determine what the community says. So I'm requesting any of you wiki fiends to go vote for him (have to register first).
The Page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculator)
And for those of you who don't believe the statement about .9999 = 1, go here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_that_0.999..._equals_1)
Thank you.
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i read it, and it's wrong. .9999....9 will never be 1 because it can never be a whole number. Even after reading that page they try to explain it in fraction forms but they did it wrong.
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Numbers scare me.
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I agree with phantom, you cant redefine the number system just to make yourself look smart, .9999999999999 99 no matter how many points and 9's you add it will always be just that.
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I think phantom and bonehead are rite cause no number is equal to another number except for itself. 2 is not = to 1 just like .9999999...is not = to 1
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You guys aren't reading all of which he wrote. He wrote when taken to the infinite precision or something like that then it would be equal to 1. Of course to be most accurate you would want to put it in some sort of fraction, but to be most accurate of all you need that little line over the end of the 9 to signify that it is repeating. However, as Rahl said, it would be 1 because if it was taken to the infinite precision or what ever then it would have to be rounded to give the most feasable answer.
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Just bullshit 9 is 9 and even if you said nine infinite times its still 9! 1 is 1 and 9 is 9 not .99999999> = 1 or ^999999> = 1 blah blah get it? good I hope or else I will pop off your head and skull fuck you!
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9 is 9 no matter what, doesnt matter about "precision". .99999 is just that... sure if you ROUNDED it, then it would be 1. But its not. Whoever came up with that site is a moron. He uses the expression 1/2 = 3/6 as an argument for it? Stating that things can be expressed differently and mean the same thing. Well they are the same things. .999 and 1 are not. Im an Architecht student at Texas A&M and Ive run this by a few of my buddies and they agree. Sorry Rahl. Love ya but we believe that he is wrong.
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Havok']You guys aren't reading all of which he wrote. He wrote when taken to the infinite precision or something like that then it would be equal to 1.
yea we did read that cuz that was the main point of that whole page. And it's still wrong.
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I understand the argument you're making. It's a good argument but I just don't buy it. Using .333333~ to represent 1/3 is a concept and you shouldn't really multiply 3 x .333333~ to get an answer... you should multiply 3 x 1/3 because it will give you a more accurate answer and oh my god what the fuck am I talking about I should be high right now........... ........ I'm going to go reevaluate my life. :XXsmoker:
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Thats not really accurate either. You start making numbers accurate AFTER you use them. You would multiply something by .333333 whatever THEN youll cut that number down to what ever decimal or whatever you want it. Do yall get that? Again, Ive done drafting and engineering stuff I know what Im talking about haha.
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You're all fucking nerds.
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You're all fucking nerds.
Missa, this is a video game forum for an FPS clan. I think we're all nerds.
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well from what i remember in geometry i remember that .9999999999999 99999999999999 999999999 would come to equal 1 at a certain point.
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Ok we all know that 10x-x=9x
substitute one in for x and you get 10-1=9, True right
now substitute x=.99999999 repeating in
and you get: 9.999999999-.999999999=9x
simplify: 9=9x
divide: 1=x
substitute: .9999999999=1
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that a boy medic. u show em how we are right.
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Um ok... 2-1=1, there you happy? There is the 1 you are all looking for, just remember "1 Is The Loneliest Number".
No it isn't spam... I am trying to stop you all from blowing your top, breaking your computers or getting in a fight at the Bar over this.
Maybe on a linux computer it comes out as 1 and on a MS computer it comes out as 9... Didn't think of that did you?
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Um ok... 2-1=1, there you happy? There is the 1 you are all looking for, just remember "1 Is The Loneliest Number".
No it isn't spam... I am trying to stop you all from blowing your top, breaking your computers or getting in a fight at the Bar over this.
yeah but still .9999999999999 99999999999999 99999999999999 =[SIZE="7"][COLOR="Red"]1[/COLOR][/SIZE]
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Wow, you guys really don't understand, do you? I'm only at the 10th grade(Algebra 2)math level, and after reading about it, I can fully understand it. With that said, maybe some of you will actually read and see how it happens. So, .999999.... does infact equal 1.
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Well if you were going to take the significant digits of that to see whether or not in an equation something was equal to 1 and you get the answer of .9999999, the logical choice would be to put it to 1 instead of .9. That's just the logical thing in my opinion.
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Wow, you guys really don't understand, do you? I'm only at the 10th grade(Algebra 2)math level, and after reading about it, I can fully understand it. With that said, maybe some of you will actually read and see how it happens. So, .999999.... does infact equal 1.
see told u guys. i think we won. so therefore ,9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999=1
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Here's another way to think about it. When you write something like
0.35
that's really the same as 35/100,
0.35 = 35 / 100
right? Well, you can turn that into a repeating decimal by dividing by
99 instead of 100:
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0.35353535... = 0.35 = 35 / 99
Again, some examples can help make this clear:
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0.1 = 1/9
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0.12 = 12/99
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0.123 = 123/999
and so on.
So, here's something to consider: What fraction corresponds to
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0.9 = ?
It has to be something over 9, right?
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0.9 = ? / 9
With there only being natural numbers as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9...and so on.
The only thing it could possibly be is
_
0.9 = 9 / 9
right? But that's the same as 1.
By the way, the forum screwed up my repeating sign. So please try to ignore that as best as possible.
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Last time think really hard...
The number system does not end it can not end there is no end to it!
Now how can something = a higher level when that level could never be reached by getting to the end when the end will never come? if .999> infinite =1 then how did you get to the end to get the 1? you can't rank a higher integer for a lower meaning that has no end to its conception.
You can play with numbers all you like step back and look at it with a simple mind as a child would and you will see there is really no way.
In a simple case lets do this...
I hope in my car and I get going so fast that I infact start to go in reverse.
Is this logic possible?
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Here's another way to think about it. When you write something like
0.35
that's really the same as 35/100,
0.35 = 35 / 100
right? Well, you can turn that into a repeating decimal by dividing by
99 instead of 100:
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0.35353535... = 0.35 = 35 / 99
Ok... .35 does equal 35/100. You're right there. BUT... when you divide .35 by 99, you're getting a completely new fraction. .35353535~ does not equal .35!! It's 35/99 which is larger than 35/100. You can see this played out:
35/100 = .35
35/99 = .353535353535~
So: .3535353535353 5~ > .35 and 35/99 > 35/100
They are completely different numbers. When you make the assumption that 35/100 = 35/99, then you are make the /99 what the /100 was representing in the first example (the whole number). Explained:
100/100 = 1
You say that 35/100 = 35/99
Which would mean: 99/100 = 1
But since 35/100 does not equal 35/99, then you're comparing apples to oranges and start looking at the .9~ through the concept of x/9
Tell me if I explained that right. =\
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Holy shit. . . I didn't think this would be such a controversy. You can disagree all you'd like, but .9999....is in fact 1. There have been ample proofs put up -- I don't see how it could be much more clear. You may disagree because of your architect experience or whatever, but my mathematics degree begs to differ. Not to mention my professors' degrees.
Anyway, this was fun. Love ya!
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Yeah, since I don't have a degree and I don't agree with you then it's obviously my inability to look at problems from different perspectives.. . :^
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You're all retarded.
If .9 repeating and 1 are different numbers, give me the number between them. There isn't one. They're the same number. Get over it because it's boring and doesn't actually matter to many people.
By the way, .9999999999 repeating in fraction form is just 1/1. If it were anything else, it wouldn't equal 1. And it does equal 1. Let this end.
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Hello Peoples,
I would still like to add someting to this discussion.
I read the artikel and mathematically you could get to
the illusion that 0,9 invenite equals 1.
But if this where really to be true, then logically
1,9 invenite should equal 2, and anny other number taken
to invenit should eventually become the number following it up.
If this where true, then every number is really no different then
anny other number.
Then that means we shouldn't be able to count, but we can!!
So 0,9 invenite does not really equal 1, it's only very close to it!!
How about that??
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Yeah, since I don't have a degree and I don't agree with you then it's obviously my inability to look at problems from different perspectives.. . :^
It's not that I don't value other people's opinions. Far from it! It's just that in mathematics, things are either true or not. There are no grey areas. That's probably why I like it so much.
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everyone's math is wrong, .9 to infinite can never be a whole number. The only way you people are converting it and believing it can is because of HUMAN ERROR. Humans do make mistakes you know and obviously you guys are fucking it up. Who knows, there could always be flaw in mathematics. Use logic.
Example. You have an apple, you have a .11111 to the infinite piece missing from it therefore it's not a whole apple and never will be.
Elliot says that there is no number between .999 to infinite and 1 but that is because there is no end to the number .999 to infinite. Technically .9999 is not a number at all if it is not complete.
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I think your right phantom,
Besides Elliot says theres no number between 0,9~ and 1,
but that doesn't mean they are the SAME number.
Mathematically they could also follow each other up!!
And quess what, THEY DO!!
Also If I had only a 0,9~ computer instead of a whole one,
then I probably would't even be able to post this message, haha.
You guys must be crazy, lol
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Well I am out of this I said my peace, you nerds can fight over it all day.
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Holy crap, talking about numbers! I don't even know where you guys are talking about!
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Elliot says that there is no number between .999 to infinite and 1 but that is because there is no end to the number .999 to infinite. Technically .9999 is not a number at all if it is not complete.
.999 repeating is complete. Just because we cannot comprehend it's finality doesn't make it unequal to 1. Also, pi is a repeating number which we cannot follow to it's end, but I bet you'd accept it as true when you realize that it's merely the fraction 22/7, just as .999 repeating is the fraction 1/1. booyakasha
Besides Elliot says theres no number between 0,9~ and 1,
but that doesn't mean they are the SAME number.
Mathematically they could also follow each other up!!
And quess what, THEY DO!!
Yeah, actually no two numbers CAN follow each other. There's always one between them. That's called infinity. When there ceases to be that infinity, that's called being finite. That is, the numbers are themselves and each other. They're equal.
Hello Peoples,
I would still like to add someting to this discussion.
I read the artikel and mathematically you could get to
the illusion that 0,9 invenite equals 1.
But if this where really to be true, then logically
1,9 invenite should equal 2, and anny other number taken
to invenit should eventually become the number following it up.
If this where true, then every number is really no different then
anny other number.
Then that means we shouldn't be able to count, but we can!!
So 0,9 invenite does not really equal 1, it's only very close to it!!
How about that??
You're dumb.
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Yeah, actually no two numbers CAN follow each other. There's always one between them. That's called infinity. When there ceases to be that infinity, that's called being finite. That is, the numbers are themselves and each other. They're equal.
Look, I understand what you mean by being finite,
but when something is infinite it's exactly that INFINITE,
or NOT DEFIND, so it's accually nothing in specific.
So in the way we use mathemathics you can't really say
that they are the same number when there is an infinity between them.
I don't think anny of us primates understand the way infinity works
or even what it is. If you could you would be living and thinking
in a whole diffrent dimenson all together!! So let us primates with our
primitive mathematics just leave it to rest for now and start gaming!!
PS: I think when somebody is as quick to judge (like you) that
someone is dumb, he himself must not be very smart either!!
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But Infinity is a THEORY not FACT. You cant see it. So how can you have PROOFS from THEORY? I do believe in God, but I dont have set proof. You cant grasp infinity. You cant put infinity in a super computer and get an infinate answer. You've all been sweet talked into thinking something otherwise. You have to look at facts.
The CALCULATOR makes it =1 becuase theres nothing else for it to compute it to. You can also spell boobs on the calculator but those are just theory boobs. Just becuase the calculator says it is doesnt make it so. .9999 to infinity is .9999 to infinity. Not 1. Again...how can you have a PROOF of something that isn't tangable? Just the website alone contratics itself.
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Original message by Thasnyper
But Infinity is a THEORY not FACT. You cant see it. So how can you have PROOFS from THEORY? I do believe in God, but I dont have set proof. You cant grasp infinity. You cant put infinity in a super computer and get an infinate answer. You've all been sweet talked into thinking something otherwise. You have to look at facts.
The CALCULATOR makes it =1 becuase theres nothing else for it to compute it to. You can also spell boobs on the calculator but those are just theory boobs. Just becuase the calculator says it is doesnt make it so. .9999 to infinity is .9999 to infinity. Not 1. Again...how can you have a PROOF of something that isn't tangable? Just the website alone contratics itself.
Thank you very much THASNYPER !!!
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this thread is a crock of SHIT! thanks alot rahl for making us think so god damn hard about something so fucking stupid like the number 1!
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I agree, Snyper. .99999~ is as close to 1 as mathematically possible but never reaches it. Just because 1/3 = .3333333~ on a calculator and if you multiply that by x3 you get .999999~ means that it equals one. It's all theory, not a fact that you can prove on a calculator.
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my final touch to this. ok you know that any decimal goes like this ..777777777777 78. it always ends with the next number depending on how much it is that you are dealing with. .88888888889 therefore .99999999=1 if you go up to the next number which my Calculus teacher with a PhD told me about. so for any number it goes like this .1111111111111 12, .222222222223, .3333333333333 333334, .4444444444445, .5555555555555 6, .6666666666666 7, .7777777777777 78, .8888888888889, and then finally 9 would equal 1.
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Example. You have an apple, you have a .11111 to the infinite piece missing from it therefore it's not a whole apple and never will be.
Dude, subtract .99999999999 from 1. You get .000000000000r epeating1, not .1111111. Now if the 0s are repeating, you would never get to the one at the end, so its actually not even there, making 1-.999999=.0000000000
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But Infinity is a THEORY not FACT. You cant see it. So how can you have PROOFS from THEORY? I do believe in God, but I dont have set proof. You cant grasp infinity. You cant put infinity in a super computer and get an infinate answer. You've all been sweet talked into thinking something otherwise. You have to look at facts.
The CALCULATOR makes it =1 becuase theres nothing else for it to compute it to. You can also spell boobs on the calculator but those are just theory boobs. Just becuase the calculator says it is doesnt make it so. .9999 to infinity is .9999 to infinity. Not 1. Again...how can you have a PROOF of something that isn't tangable? Just the website alone contratics itself.
First of all, it's an abstract concept, not a theory. Even and odd numbers are concepts, yet we can use them to prove that any two odd numbers, when added together, will yield an even number. Or an odd and an even make an odd. All of mathematics is based on a concept.
Shit, one of the axioms we base our numbering system on is the Trichotomy Principle -- meaning that two numbers are either related by less than, greater than, or equal two. But this is just a concept seeing as how our numbers were arbitrarly chosen and ordered. Yet I doubt you would disagree that 0 < 1. And yes, there is a proof for that as well.
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i think .99999 = .99999, you cant change it to make it whole. Its like taking a.aaaaaaaa and making it b.
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i think .99999 = .99999, you cant change it to make it whole. Its like taking a.aaaaaaaa and making it b.
Hmm thats a tough one. a=b=0
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Dude, subtract .99999999999 from 1. You get .000000000000r epeating1, not .1111111. Now if the 0s are repeating, you would never get to the one at the end, so its actually not even there, making 1-.999999=.0000000000
1 - .999999999~ = .0000000000000~1
The one at the end means that you will never reach 0. That's the conpept of infinity: getting infinitly close to the number but never reaching it. Just because you'll never reach the one at the "end" of the zeros doesn't mean that it's not there. The only number that you can subtract from 1 and reach 0 is 1.
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1 - .999999999~ = .0000000000000~1
The one at the end means that you will never reach 0. That's the conpept of infinity: getting infinitly close to the number but never reaching it. Just because you'll never reach the one at the "end" of the zeros doesn't mean that it's not there. The only number that you can subtract from 1 and reach 0 is 1.
No, if you really think about it. If you take 1-.99999999~, you will get .0000000~. Since its an infinitive, it will never have a 1 in it. Thus, making another example proving .9999~=1. Thank you for that.;)
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Originally posted by Deathwish: No, if you really think about it. If you take 1-.99999999~, you will get .0000000~. Since its an infinitive, it will never have a 1 in it. Thus, making another example proving .9999~=1. Thank you for that.
Here you make a big mistake because,
0,00000~ is also an infinity and is not the same as ZERO!!
Zero plus 0,9~ will still be 0,99999~
But 0,00000~ plus 0,99999~ makes ONE!!
Fucking nerdy IDIOTS, lol
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.0000~ is still zero you twat cuz there is no amount in that number. And again, everyones math is still wrong. .88889 only comes out on calculators because it doesn't have an infinitive sign, it rounded off obviously and the number came to a stop. Infinitive numbers never come to a stop therefore .9999~ can never be 1 since 1 is a number that is whole.
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No, if you really think about it. If you take 1-.99999999~, you will get .0000000~. Since its an infinitive, it will never have a 1 in it. Thus, making another example proving .9999~=1. Thank you for that.;)
Just because you can't write out 0.0000000~1 on paper doesn't mean that you can count the 1 at the "end" out. The ~1 is a concept that it gets as close to 0 but never reaches 0.
Oh, and go to your computer's calculator. Type in 1 - .99999999 (as many 9s as it will allow). The answer you will get is:
.0000000000000 000001
The 1 at the end is the concept of the ~1. You might not be able to prove or disprove it with calculators or on paper, but it's there... just like ~9 is there at the "end" of .999999999~
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Another aspect: I realize that the infinancy never ends, but what hasn't been mentioned is that the farther to the right you go, the smaller that number is worth. Which brings in another theory: half life. Examples:
Ex 1) If I walk half the distance from here to uptown, and then half the distance from that point to uptown, then half the distance from that to uptown, etc... I will NEVER reach uptown.
Ex 2) If I go 99% of the way to uptown, and then go 99% of the way from that point to uptown, and then go 99% of the way from that point to uptown, etc... I will NEVER reach uptown.
Ex 3) If I go 99% of the way from 0 to 1 (.99), and then go 99% of the way from that point to 1 (.9999), and then go... etc... It will NEVER reach 1. Ever.
You could keep going to the right forever, but eventually you would need that ~1 to tip the number over to a whole number of 1. Word.
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Did you know 1 = 2 as well? So then... .9999999 = 2 :) and "something" = "nothing", but "something" does not = "no thing". So, "no thing" cannot = "nothing"... Oh, and up is down, right is left, top is bottom, inside is outside... Okay, sorry, continue the nerd debate.
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Dude, subtract .99999999999 from 1. You get .000000000000r epeating1, not .1111111. Now if the 0s are repeating, you would never get to the one at the end, so its actually not even there, making 1-.999999=.0000000000
.99999999 to the infinite can't be subtracted from anything because it never ends so there is no place to start to subtract unless u round it to 1
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I think everyone will agree on two things:
1/9 = .1111111111~
8/9 = .8888888888~
Agreed? Simple enough, right?
Now, let's do two equations:
[COLOR="Red"]1/9 + 8/9 = 1[/COLOR]. Agreed? Okay. Now, let's do some substitution.
[COLOR="Red"](.11~)+(.88~) = .99999999~[/COLOR] or just plain old [COLOR="Red"][SIZE="4"]1[/SIZE][/COLOR].
Now if this doesn't settle it, I really don't know what would.
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For the ones that say that 0,9999~ is the same as one (Elliot):
By thinking this, you are denying the existence of infinity!!
But our mathematics are based on the idea of infinity, think about it:
When you start counting from ZERO up, you will end up in infinity.
When you start counting from ZERO down, you will end up in infinity.
Every DEFIND number is a part of this infinity, it is REAL
Every DEFIND thing exists in this infinity, they are the opposites:
Something DEFIND can't exist without infinity surrounding it,
This infinity makes it possible for things to be DEFIND!!
I think that the ones trying to explane infinity mathematically
are just narrow minded!!
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At least we can spell defined correctly.
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I think everyone will agree on two things:
1/9 = .1111111111~
8/9 = .8888888888~
Agreed? Simple enough, right?
Now, let's do two equations:
[COLOR="Red"]1/9 + 8/9 = 1[/COLOR]. Agreed? Okay. Now, let's do some substitution.
[COLOR="Red"](.11~)+(.88~) = .99999999~[/COLOR] or just plain old [COLOR="Red"][SIZE="4"]1[/SIZE][/COLOR].
Now if this doesn't settle it, I really don't know what would.
I understand what you're saying, but you can't turn 1/9 into .11111111~ and expect that it will be mathematically sound. By using .11111111~ with addition, you're treating it like it's an actual number instead of a concept.
Now, if you're saying that 1/9 = .111111111 because it's close enough not to make too big of a difference, then sure. Then I'd agree that .9999999~ = 1 because the difference between them is unmeasurably small and pointless. I'm just saying that that doesn't mean there isn't a difference. Who's up for a new debate? lol
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Either move this to Flame or close it. It's getting annoying and people will never totally agree. This seems like the concept of Hacking and whether or not it should be done. People are always going to argue about it and it leads to no where.
It think CookieMonster (yes I spelled it actually correctly) was a poet in a past life and that's why he contines to write in Poetic format. Either that or he's a moron.
BTW... don't come back with "You spelled your name wrong." I didn't.
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Yeah I did it. Sorry, Havok is right. When I go to heaven Ill ask God what he thinks.
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OR... you could have just moved it to spam... :)
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This was/is a nice conversation. All of you new people should read it and respond, or at least just think about it.
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Hell, good news! Your penis isn't .9999999999999, it is really 1 inch!
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Shit, two out of my ten old posts from back in the day. Took me five minutes to hit the reply button, still watching your sig Whoops; same effect as Roshan's dog out the window sig had.
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Shit, two out of my ten old posts from back in the day. Took me five minutes to hit the reply button, still watching your sig Whoops; same effect as Roshan's dog out the window sig had.
Now try and make every face that Mr. Bean does.