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Script Kiddie's piss me off, this little niblet needs to be beaten with a rusty shovel and left bleeding in the moonlight.

Nice one

I think you are mistaken here Koekie. I never mentioned Hell in any post. And to make a statement about aliens and monkies creating our race seems moronic to me. I can't help that I am direct when I hear/read something that seems totaly obsurd to me. Thats where that statment came from. I thought we were talking about the universe. That is where my post came from. Its not all about religion, just my point of view on the creation of the Universe. I am trying to stay at least close to on topic. And you are right you don't know me. I have reserved my coments as to my religious beliefs on the afterlife and how to live your life.

First of all, yes you did mentioned me going to hell and you are not, and thereby saying you are better than me right here:

Lets just say that if me, beete, gio and Chris are wrong then we all end up in the same place after we die.  In the grave.  But by our account if we are right then we end up in heaven and well non-believers end up not so happy.  

Further more, you believe stuff because of the way you interped things that happen around you. That doesn't mean you are right and I am wrong, or vise versa for that matter, it is just the way you experience this. And i really don't like this respectles additude you have against non believers. I do not respect you any less because you are a believer, but you don't seem to have any respect for what non believers believe, since you say they all will perish and go to hell. Explain to me how this behaviour makes you a better man then me Lightning :|

yeah that means that if you believe in jesus, (meaning that you have faith in him and do god's will, not just say oh i believe and jesus and there) then you will get eternal life.

That's exactly what I ment, it's not just believing. It's about doing God's will, and believing that it is the right way to live, to take his examples and if you need to, you sacrifice your son for the greater cause like he did etc ... How many of todays Christan's can say they are treuly the followers of God, and that their one and only goal in live is to serve his will, I bett not even 5%. Most people these days just say they believe, so they can be sure of an afterlive, they think. They don't even go to church on sundays anymore. This is not the way it was ment to be. You either treuly "believe" like Chris was saying, or you just don't believe at all.

Well my bible says it was all created in 6 days. If you want a bible debate just ask I can help. I spent many years in school refining what I believe instead of the propoganda that the Govt. told me I needed to learn. You may wanna break out a Bible, I think you should try KJV very easy to read and read the first book its called Genesis. It explains a lot. There are many forshadows of the trinity, the idea of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Verse 1 creation of the universe and man. Verse 7 tells about how the flood and how this created the first rains. Before this there was no storms or rain. Just dew in the morning. Verse 11 tells about the seperation and how god eventually created numerious races as a punishment to man. Even Verse 16 talks about the creation of the crazy Muslim sect that we refer to as Al-Quida. And I can go on and on. But hey this was written thousands of years ago how can they predict the rise of Christian haters.

Peace.

I know these verses about the creation of everything, it is just that I don't believe one word of them. There is nothing special about them, I myself could have come up with something like that for people to believe in. There is no sence in debating the Bible with me Lightning, you believe it and I don't. Also, the stuff you are referring to are just some events that presumably happened by the one who wrote them down, it has totally nothing to do with the essence of being a true Christian. As I said before, I don't think you understand what is ment by "BELIEVING" in God. It is not about reading up on stuff from the Bible, it is about accually executing these believes in your live. You are making a big mistake, thinking you will end up in heaven by just saying that you believe and that the Bible is right. It is not ment to be that easy.

Now then Beetle, do you still wanna tell me that I don't understand??

that's a subtlety that's often overlooked i think...whenev er i see a picture of jesus, he's always white. If he came from the middle east, i bet he'd be a hairy dark-skinned man, not some aryan blonde that he is often depicted to be. Just something that's bothered me for a while...

Don't forget that it says in the Bible, he is the son of God, so he is not really from the middle-east!!

I only ask because i want to know what these people think. what is their reasoning. i know what i believe. but those who dont i wonder. With so much proof that their is a god what is it that makes them believe otherwise.

This is easy. I understand that you believe in the existance of a single God and the event written in the Bible about Christ a.o, and I respect that. How can I not, people have been believing this for about 2000 years now. But before this time period, there were a whole lot of other believes and understandings of this world we live in. So I think since we now in the past 2000 years have developed a much better understanding of our place in this Universe, it is time for a change again!!

I was once in your shoes so I know exactly what you're saying when you talk about "proof." Its so much easier to be on your side and disprove the Bible than it is to be on mine and try to prove it. But that's the good thing, its not my job to try to prove stories to you - I just tell you the truth and pray for you, and the rest is up to you and God. There are many historical documents that we consider to be "proof," or facts, of real events that happened. How do we know they are real - just because people wrote about them and we read it and believe it to be true. Nobody ever really questions a history book, do they?

Accually, I do question history books, all of them. You see, you have to take in mind that these stories were maybe written down by people who were allready confinced of the existance of God, or maybe people that were trying to promote this believe by blowing up or changing the story, or even making up the whole event. You can never be sure with what intent these stories were written down. This is why I will never take these scriptures for facts.

What if aliens came to Earth and did gene splicing on the Cro-Magnon, since we can create mutations in other species, maybe another species mutated us, making it so that our skulls and body stances changed? That sounds more reasonable actually.

Or maybe these aliens where just very horny as they flew by our planet and desided to come down to fuck a few monkeys and created our rass in the process  ...

So did you just make that up about what happens when we die or were you inspired by something?  I'm just curious.  Anyway, We do know about God, not everything because we just cannot comprehend it, but we know enough.  Read the Bible and you will learn more.  As far as our universe lying in another place - that doesn't really make sense - our universe lies right where it is, which is here, wherever we are in terms of space.   And no, he's not sitting at a table with "fellow gods."

Well accually I have thought about this stuff alot and I hade long discussions with friends about it, also in the past when I was still going to churh. It is all very simple, no heaven, no hell. When you die, then that's it, you are dead. Only that energie within you, your chi, your soul, that stuff you need your 6st sence for to understand (call it what you want) survives. It also lives on in the lives of the people you leave behind and impressions you made etc ... you changed that Global/Universal energie a little bit. Anyway that is how I like to see it

What if our universe is actually the body of someone, and we are the cells of his body? That might explain god

I don't think this is all that stupid haha, think about it. Your body, or anything else for that matter, is made of molecules wich in there turn are made of atoms and there protons, neutrons and electrons, wich circel around an induvidual atom kinda like a "small Gallaxy"!! (And there are even tinier particals for that matter, but we have no proof of that jet). Now think of this "small Gallaxy" as our Gallaxy and look into outerspace and see all the other Gallaxies ... if all these Gallaxies where to be molecules then we indead would be part of something else. And that something else inturn, would also be part of something even bigger etc ... see, it is not at all impossible, it's pretty far fetched but far from impossible!!

i meant it more in a sense of humor than serious. But seriously then i believe people dont believe in god because..... i dont know somebody tell me why not.

I think you are looking at it the wrong way Gio. You ask yourself why some people DO NOT believe in God as if it were the trueth. I say to that, why DO you believe in God or in anything else for that matter. You infact are the one who has chosen to believe in something, therefor you are the one that should be able to explaine why you believe. Not the people that do not believe in God. :|

Wow Kraut, that's a triple post without accually spamming, nicely done haha Also Kraut, you say the Evolution theory has been rejected, how so??

btw nobody has answered my question jet, somebody who believes in the existance of a God, explaine to me:

If the Earth/Universe was created by a God, where did this God then come from, and could it be that he is a highly evolved Alien spiecies, and that there are more of his kind, and also why not??

I think Gio was saying was that he agrees with Lightning when he said that the way the world/universe works, how everything interacts, is just too perfect to be "random," and that it must have a creator.  Proof that there really is a God can be seen two ways, but they probably are not the ways that you are looking for:

I do not agree with you guys here, I don't see the World/Universe as too perfect. It only seems that way because it is "perfect" for us, but this seems logical to me, because our existance lies in this World/Universe, so it is logical that we fit in this part of the Universe nicely because we are part of it. Probably some other spiecies (life form) are not able to survive in our conditions but have a "perfect" homeplanet/World for them to live on, in a different part of the Universe.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a God hater, I was raised with the bible, don't remember halve of it anymore but okay, I do know what it is about. It is just that somewhere along the line I got interested for other explenaitions aswell. I now see the bible as tales about morals and valeus or "livelessons" and pretty good ones at that. But I don't see them as real live stories anymore.

The spiritual explenaition you give me Beetle I believe. But does that really have to do with God and Jesus, or with the way our minds work. I mean I believe you can do anything if you set your mind to it. And what these people experience is really incredible, but I believe you can also get these kind of results without a God to believe in, aslong as you do BELIEVE in something enough.

I agree, lets not make this a long debate about whos right, besides there are no rights and wrongs when it comes to this kinda stuff I think. I do however like to share thoughts on this subject. One guestion I have is: If the Earth was created by a God, where did this God then come from, and could it be that he is a highly evolved Alien spiecies, and that there are more of his kind??