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Author Topic: Best song of all time?  (Read 41824 times)

*MAFIA* Beatlejuice

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Best song of all time?
« Reply #150 on: July 18, 2006, 01:41:42 PM »

Quote from: GWAR 3:16
To your sermon I say, anyone with an IQ above 100, who has read the bible completely, or even very large portions of it, it is impossible to believe in god.  There are so many contradictions, lies, acts of violence, and insane people in the bible that it is IMPOSSIBLE to be a rational person and still believe in it.  You have blinders on that are caused by your need to feel that there is some great being out there guiding us and protecting us, so you ignore the offensive parts of the bible and just focus on what you believe are the 'good' parts.  If you cared to take a look at the violence being committed in the world today, even ignoring the insanity of the bible, you would see that there is no god.  Where is he?  Why doesn't he set a bush on fire like he used to do?  He created this mess, but now he's too good to clean it up and your only option is to blindly believe in him?  He created man, he created mans violence.  He could have just as easily created the ideal man, but apparently he is so insecure that he needs to love and approval of mortal beings that only exist because he created them?  Sounds like a spoiled child playing with his dolls.

That was me talking about 5 years ago.  I understand completely what you are saying - or should I say I understood?  The only way, ONLY way, you will ever know the true answer to that paragraph is if you believe.  That's all, there's no arguing back and forth anymore.  You believe what you believe, and I believe what I do, and we go our separate ways.  I've shared with you, and now I will pray for you.  That's all.  Sorry but there is no point to this anymore.

Quote from: GWAR 3:16
Actually you're the one who refuses to admit being wrong and jumps around.  That is why it took so long to pin you down on admitting that the song lyrics were gay.  I did miss where you admitted it, but to accuse me of not admitting to being wrong is one of your favorite tactics, especially in light of the fact that that is the only point I have been wrong on.   I have provided source after source, and backed up each argument with as many facts as possible.  You continue to run on faith and emotion.  Only now when you think you  see an advantage will you admit that you 'misunderstood' that I was talking about the alice song.  I have proven that EJ sings songs about being queer.  I have shown you in the bible where it calls for you to kill queers.  Never have I said that jesus says to kill queers, that is a straw man argument of your own invention.  You insisting on me providing proof of jesus telling you to tell queers has nothing to do with my statement about the bible calling for the death of homosexuals.

I don't jump around.  If you want to say I was wrong, then OK, I was wrong.  I saw "Yellow Brick Road," which you acutally posted the album before the song "Alice" and the lyrics, so I just assumed that it was those lyrics you posted.  So I looked up that link on the "Yellow Brick Road."  When I finally realized you were talking about a different song, then I said yes, you are right, it is a homosexual song.  I cannot put that any more plainly for you so you'll just have to live with that.  Elton John is still a great musician.  Check this out though, from post #51, by you:
Quote from: GWAR 3:16
I don't believe in a book that tells me to stone homosexuals to death, although I would gladly heave a rock at a fag, so there is a higher standard(jeeeeeeeeesus!) that you're held to.

I am not held to a higher standard.  The book does not tell you, or me, to stone homosexuals to death.  God commands Moses to do it in the Old Testament, and Paul talks about God judging gays in the New Testament, but you STILL haven't showed me where it commands YOU, personally, to stone gays to death.  And that, my friend, you are jumping around and won't admit you were wrong about.   You are just like the rest - you love to take scripture out of context and throw it at me or any other Christian and say "there, take that," when you have no clue what its about.
Quote from: GWAR 3:16

Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished.  Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel.  Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die.  (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT).

That is the Old Testament, a command he gave to Moses.  Once again, he is not telling you or I or anyone of today to do that.  And that is what you said the book does.  Times were different then even if it is a spec in eternity.  But the scripture is true, they did do that, and more importantly, the part you really should be paying closer attention to, is that "those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be puinshed."  Romans 6:23 says "The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."  The choice is easy if you ask me, but unrealistic to someone like you.  Sad.

Quote from: GWAR 3:16
You say that you know jesus even though you haven't read the entire bible...well, what is stopping you?  You have time to argue with me for 5 hours, but you can't read the bible in it's entireity?  You act like bibles are rare or hard to read.  I would think that with your enormous faith in god you would devour the book.  The only thing stopping YOU from reading the bible is YOU.  All your points otherwise have no meaning in light of that.  Think how much closer you could be to god once you deciphered the meaning of such passages as...

You say oh, we don't do things that way anymore, that was a long time ago and jesus came since then.  Well, how long is 2000 fucking years to your eternal, omnipotent god?  2000 years ago to him must be nothing, for he has existed for all of time, right?  In fact, there could be no time but for him.  So really, it was just yesterday on eternal being time that he decided you didn't have to kill your children to make him happy.

You don't have to have read the entire Bible to know Jesus.  You know him more, and better, the more you read and the more you pray, but it is not a "requirement" to be a Christian, sorry.  What is stopping me?  Well, several things.  First, I actually apply His word to my life.  I meditate on it and study it.  I don't just read it like any "normal" book and go on and on without stopping to think, mediate, study, and apply what he is really saying.  I like to do a lot of cross-referencing.  Second, I am selfish and lazy.  I am a sinner.  I do not seek God 24/7, and especially not his word.  I try my best, but being human my best isn't good enough.  I will eventually have read the Bible throughout, in time.  

When I am judged, I don't think it'll be a Sunday School type pop-quiz on memorizing scripture, it'll be on how I LIVED MY LIFE for God.  And yes reading the word is an important part of that but not the only part.  You would understand if you were a true follower of Christ.  I have never acted like the Bible is hard to read.  It was hard before I was a Christian, but I enjoy reading it now.  That was a misinterpretat ion on your part.  It is hard to read for hours on a consistent basis, but that's just me.  I know plently of people who read a lot every day, but sometimes they have trouble with what I like to do, which is apply it to every day life.  If you wish to believe that all of my points otherwise have no meaning if I haven't read the entire word, then keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.   I know God and you don't, and that is all that matters to me.

Yes you were right on another thing.  God is eternal.  We are just a speck, a dot, in terms of time and eternity.  2000 years ago was nothing for him, but there is still a difference in how people lived then and how they worshipped and sacrificed and how they do now.  If you cannot tell, even though I know this is along post, I am slowly putting an end to this "argument."  I think we've said pretty much all we need to say.
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*MAFIA* Phantom

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Best song of all time?
« Reply #151 on: July 18, 2006, 01:55:34 PM »

I don't get it...so Gwar is arguing that god doesn't exist and beetle is just simply stating that he loves god?  Shouldn't the topic be the same?
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*MAFIA* Beatlejuice

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Best song of all time?
« Reply #152 on: July 18, 2006, 01:57:22 PM »

Yes, something like that Phantom.  That's why its hard for me to call this an "argument."  I know a lot of you don't believe in God.  I just like to tell people what I believe, and for them to tell me what they believe, and discuss it.  But I'm pretty much out of statements, so you'll see fewer paragraphs from me next time.  Ha!
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*MAFIA* Kingpin

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Best song of all time?
« Reply #153 on: July 18, 2006, 02:17:51 PM »

wow, i wont even try to read all that crap, can you guys stop??? HAHA
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*MAFIA* Capsloc

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Best song of all time?
« Reply #154 on: July 18, 2006, 02:37:56 PM »

8 pages huh. real good.
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Elliott Smith

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Best song of all time?
« Reply #155 on: July 18, 2006, 03:19:12 PM »

Quote from: GWAR 3:16
Heres one of my favorite passages from the bible.  It sounds perfectly reasonable.  Just thought I would do a little proselytizing.


1 Kings 20:35-36

35Now a certain man of (AB)the sons of the prophets said to another (AC)by the word of the LORD, "Please strike me." But the man refused to strike him.

 36Then he said to him, "Because you have not listened to the voice of the LORD, behold, as soon as you have departed from me, (AD)a lion will kill you." And as soon as he had departed from him a lion found him and killed him.

What a coinky dink!
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[TBD] General Patton

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Best song of all time?
« Reply #156 on: July 18, 2006, 03:35:36 PM »

red flag by billy talent pwns u all
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*MAFIA* KrautKiller

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Best song of all time?
« Reply #157 on: July 18, 2006, 04:15:35 PM »

I think you want to be banned....
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KaTaLySt

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Best song of all time?
« Reply #158 on: July 18, 2006, 06:46:21 PM »

Amen
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Elliott Smith

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Best song of all time?
« Reply #159 on: July 19, 2006, 04:46:40 PM »

billy talent went to a melissa ethridge concert and liked it
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giothermal

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Best song of all time?
« Reply #160 on: July 19, 2006, 05:25:23 PM »

Don really have a favorite song but Piano music is the best.
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MacGiraffe

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Best song of all time?
« Reply #161 on: July 19, 2006, 06:31:59 PM »

PIANO MUSIC? what the fuck, ur mexican ass music is better than piano music. no, wait, i would put me to sleep, beaner music gives me a headache. but pianos still suck nuts.

fav song = Ice Cream man by luniz and drudown, CUZ IS BOUT CRACK,
               
               or Rescue 911 by dru down and yukmouth, jus cuz its a super G'ed          
               out Oakland classic

but there's too many ore to name, but that'll do for now
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Elliott Smith

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Best song of all time?
« Reply #162 on: July 19, 2006, 07:57:41 PM »

Quote from: macgiraffe
PIANO MUSIC? what the fuck, ur mexican ass music is better than piano music. no, wait, i would put me to sleep, beaner music gives me a headache. but pianos still suck nuts.

fav song = Ice Cream man by luniz and drudown, CUZ IS BOUT CRACK,
               
               or Rescue 911 by dru down and yukmouth, jus cuz its a super G'ed          
               out Oakland classic

but there's too many ore to name, but that'll do for now

I guarantee you ALL of the G'ed out musicians you like think the piano music is ill.
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Mattspoon

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Poignant moments
« Reply #163 on: July 19, 2006, 09:20:06 PM »

Well, where to start. I don't play this game anymore, but was invited to look at this forum - to look at this particular thread - and to give my thoughts.

Interesting, it is, perhaps. Anyways, where to start the scrutiny... because it's all about being correct is it not? It's all about being "better", because... well why is that? Is it that we have nothing better to do? Is it because we find significance in being able "to own" others thereby proving how much better we are. For in being better we are more worthy, and to be worthy is to be... what we desire... ??? Why do we desire to be worthwhile? To be significant? Perhaps dancing with shadows is fine and dandy, but eventually, one must move into dancing with the shadow-caster else one may miss the point of it all.

So GWAR, on to some finer points. May both our eyes be opened to what is, and what is not.

[COLOR="DarkOliveGreen"]I'm not opposed to homosexuality on biblical grounds like you are. I find my own asshole disgusting and can only imagine what another man's asshole must be like.[/COLOR]

I have friend, some Sigma Chi out of Troy, that gets disgusted whenever he thinks about eating. The very act of mastication just bothers him, like something gnawing at the back of his neck. But all that to point to the very subjective existence that we move through. The great question is: "How do I know all this is real? How do I know that I'm not in a coma somewhere imagining all this is real?" And can anyone ever really answer that in any definitive way? At least in any way that adheres to a semblance of anything absolute?  

[COLOR="darkolivegreen"]I don't believe in a book that tells me to stone homosexuals to death.[/COLOR]

Is it the book? Or is there a context. Citing Romans (1:32 is it) doesn't get one out of the boat just yet...

[COLOR="darkolivegreen"]there is a higher standard(jeeeeeeeeesus!) that you're held to.[/COLOR]

...

[COLOR="darkolivegreen"]If you watch a sports team with a homosexual player, and in all likelihood you probably do, yes, you're paying his salary. You're paying his salary by watching the commercials, you're paying his salary by looking at the advertisements in the field, you're paying his salary by buying a ticket to the game or buying team merchandise. If you want to rationalize it away, be my guest, however I will always be here to remind you of your hypocrisy.[/COLOR]

Please point me to the true meaning of your statement, but I'm taking it that Beetlejuice supports Homosexuality because he watches a sports team (that has a homosexual player on it) play and watches the commercials, etc, etc. Hence why you said you were here to remind him of his hypocrisy, right? Serisouly though, do you really believe what you wrote here, or am I missing something?  By this reasoning then if I breathe air I support homosexuality. Because gays breathe air. Because gays live on the same planet as me. Etc, etc.

Wait. That's faulty logic. Now you see what I don't understand your post of watching sports teams that may have a homosexual player thereby that entails supporting a homosexual "agenda".

[COLOR="darkolivegreen"]He's a good musician, and hes also been a homosexual advocate his entire life. His fans have enabled him to wield more power than he would normally have had if he were a John Doe queer, and he's used his bully pulpit for a number of queer causes. So yes, you share some culpability in providing him with a life and a platform that he probably wouldn't have had as a 'normal' queer.[/COLOR]

Once again - in this thinking I suppose Democracy in general is to blame, and we should become Fascists. Not that Fascism is bad, per se, but that people are, as a general rule, bad and that's it's easier to be bad as a Fascist. (I almost want to believe that you aren't sure what you are writing here.)

[COLOR="darkolivegreen"]As for stoning homosexuals in the bible, I passed over it as irrelevant. Would you like me to start pointing out things that you ignore and/or choose to evade? But since you insist, here you go. You might need some scope to get the taste of foot out of your mouth. Of course, you probably go to a touchy feely feel good church, and they don't cover the meaner bits of the bible. Isn't historical revisionism wonderful? You don't even have to follow what you claim to believe.[/COLOR]

I've always wondered that to. People try to make Noah's Ark and the flood a children's story, when it by all means is not. People dying left and right, drowning... probably some dude saw the boat and ran to it and scratched away at the door, but no one opened it... In fact, the "good" people are revealed, as portrayed in the OT, as never really being good at all. They may, actually, be portrayed as people really are... Some have good intentions, like Ur in reaching out to stop the Ark of the Covenant from falling to the ground only to be struck down by God for touching what he had no right to touch. Yes, regardless that his intention was to stop something "holy" from falling to the ground. Which, being learned like yourself, should point out that good intentions are not the definitive grade for man. What did you say again, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". But have you gone deeper than that or are you still dancing with the cast shadows?

[you quote Lev 20:13]

You did not keep going. If a man sleeps with a woman while she is having her period, then he shall be cut off from his people. Incestuous relations are the same, et al. But I think even reading a few more passages might illuminate what is "more than meets the eye".

Lev 20:25-26

You shall therefore separate the clean beast from the unclean, and the unclean bird from the clean. You shall not make yourselves detestable by beast or by bird or by anything with which the ground crawls, which I have set apart for you to hold unclean. You shall be holy to me, for I the LORD am holy and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be mine.

Perhaps there was a purpose, and this purpose is alluded to only a few short verses later.

[COLOR="darkolivegreen"]That is from the KJV. There are other versions of the bible(how can there be so many versions of god's word?) [/COLOR]

So many "versions" of God's word? First, are you pointing that out as fallacy? Couldn't anyone say in response: "That's the same as getting uptight that different people have translated Homer's Iliad into English in different ways. Some prefer Robert Fagles, because he's a tradionalist, but I prefer Lombardi, because his language is more contemporary - and the D-Day landing cover brings it more to life." So are you getting at the different languages, or styles, or what are you even getting at?

[COLOR="darkolivegreen"]As for me without a savior, my race is my religion, and my skin is my uniform. You lie there crying for jesus, and I'll depend on my self. Lets see who helps faster. [/COLOR]

I'm not understanding the "authority" or "knowledge" you seem stand on. Maybe I'm just assuming from all that you've written and that you may be knowledgable with some Scripture. Beetlejuice told me that you've read the Bible (cover to cover, twice, before age 12). So let's refer back to it.

Let's start simple and see where we go from there. (And I'm not trying to be an ass about it.)

Ephesians 2:8-9  
   [COLOR="Blue"]For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.[/COLOR]

2 Corinthians 3:5-10
   [COLOR="blue"]Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, (6) who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (7)  Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, (8) will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? (9) For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. (10) Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it.[/COLOR]  

1 Corinthians 1:27-31
   [COLOR="blue"]But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; (28) God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, (29) so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. (30) He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption. (31) Therefore, as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."[/COLOR]

I'm hoping a theme was at least partially established that is self-evident. You say you will be "self-dependent". That's great. It's good to be aware of self. It's good to have integrity. The point is that all that amounts to is what happened to Ur with the ark of the covenant. If you stand on your works, you will be judged by your works. The illustration of the Bible, both OT and NT, is that all your "righteous" works are "filthy rags" before God. Not just yours because sometimes you're an asshole, but your's, mine, Fred, Bob, Wilma's, everyone. You know how we know filthy rags are a bad thing? It's not because some nickel and dime preacher in an equally nickel and dime pulpit said so, but because God, in the OT, spoke of these filthy, or menstrual, rags as being "unclean" - or that which "seperates" from that which is "set apart" or holy.

GWAR, seriously, there's always someone smarter. There's always someone more versed, more well read, fancier, smarter, blah blah blah blah. I'm not saying that I am any of those things compared to you, what I am saying is that the Position of Jesus will never be sufficient to maintain Faith in Jesus. Only the PERSON of Jesus can do that. As as with all people, all relationships, they don't always make sense, they don't follow a text book outline (unless you really, really, really, simplify it) - because that's life. If you want to be a jackass, that's great. Take a number. There's at least a billion on the planet (and yeah, I'll be right in line with you). But no one really gives a shit. And you know that - or, you should.  

I am however saying that the Bible is a bit of a story. There's a beginning, a lot of exposition, of lot of so-called "facts" and numbers and citations. But there is a climax. There is a d'enouement. There is an ending. Don't mistake the forest for the tree, or vice versa.

God promises in the old testament (Hosea), that no longer will the people call Him "Baal", but they call call Him "My Husband". Baal is another word for god - with a little "g". Now all those NT kids like to speak about being in relationship with God - with Jesus. Jesus points out that love is the key. But the Greek word doesn't always translate well into English since we trash our language so. So maybe a better adverb is needed. Add "passionately" to that. To passionately love God and to passionately love other people. What a calling, what a calling indeed.

For everyone else in this forum, sorry to have used up your space and message board. Blame Beetlejuice.

Shalom,
-wolfe
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MacGiraffe

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Best song of all time?
« Reply #164 on: July 19, 2006, 09:42:13 PM »

hu? u cant jus be comin on forums and write thesis papers. it just aint right. babies get hurt when things like that happen. dam u beetle
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