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11 (61.1%)

no

7 (38.9%)

Total Members Voted: 18

[*MAFIA* MAGGOT]

It might just be the schools i went to, but they never even taught me that a man and woman could get married,i dont even know when they would have fit in the time to do so,so i dont understand why they would start teaching about gays all of the sudden. All the other things you stated i agree shouldn't be thought about or allowed,the churches getting sued or whatever.

The thing that annoys me is people like you pressing your beliefs on things that you dont need to.

I guess i am in the same boat as dune here so i figure i'll reply to this one. Although I don't agree with the christian ways,I dont try to start ''Pressing'' my beliefs onto those who do believe in another religion. I have been raised as a Roman Catholic and have switched to a belief known as agnosticism, the certain degree of this to which i believe would label me as a pragmatic agnostic,where i don't believe that there is any proof of a god existing or not existing making the question of his ways and rulings purely material that have no bearing on anything other than mind control (ooops is that me pressing my beliefs on you? sorry about that one). However i get people that come around on their little bicycles,helmets and suits trying to convert me to mormonism, or the people that come around talking about jehova, but i rarely,if ever, (might be where i live) have people come around trying to tell me there is no god and try to force the lack of religion onto me. Although i have a few things i feel like saying right now, i wont seeing as it might get edited by beatle for drama or cause masebots thread to be kicked to the gutter quicker than hell after a little ghb in san fransisco.




Edit:Found this on wiki which kinda described it better than what i had wrote in the crossed out section of my post above


''the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of God or gods, but since any God or gods that may exist appear unconcerned for the universe or the welfare of its inhabitants, the question is largely academic anyway.''

[*MAFIA* OUTLAW]

There is literally no valid arguement on gay marriage based on government views. If gay marriage is banned, people will complain about how it discriminates and the ban will start lifting in state after state. There is nothing that can be done and we will have to live with it(think about freeing the blacks and giving woman the right to vote; it happened over a period of time.)
I won't be surprised when people fight for the right to marry their animals or objects.

The only valid dispute would be like I said before; gay marriage is morally wrong. We all know this because marriage is defined between a man and a woman. We also know that morals are a vague part of government law so they are almost meaningless. Hope people catch the drift on that.

But anyways, It's going to be something to watch when the government starts altering peoples' beliefs. Churches will start closing, maybe some riots, and school related violence on gays and others will probably increase.

Edit: Good article to read: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/februaryweb-only/2-16-41.0.html?start=1

[*MAFIA* MAGGOT]

The only valid dispute would be like I said before; gay marriage is morally wrong. We all know this because marriage is defined between a man and a woman. We also know that morals are a vague part of government law so they are almost meaningless. Hope people catch the drift on that.

uummmmmm ok.

I won't be surprised when people fight for the right to marry their animals or objects.

People have already married goats and cows so meh no suprise there.

The only valid dispute would be like I said before; gay marriage is morally wrong. We all know this because marriage is defined between a man and a woman. We also know that morals are a vague part of government law so they are almost meaningless. Hope people catch the drift on that.

Uhhhh depends on EACH persons individual morals, frankly i am quite apathetic when it comes to alot of things, i REALLY am an asshole and i dont really see the problem with this whole picture. then again its confusing on how you are viewing this whole things with stating how vague morals are in the government soooooo meh?

But anyways, It's going to be something to watch when the government starts altering peoples' beliefs. Churches will start closing, maybe some riots, and school related violence on gays and others will probably increase.

Might just be that you are from canada but to tell you the truth i dont see a big deal, it wouldn't really be changing beliefs i dont think.....they are not telling you that you HAVE to become a faggot,and again the churches closing seems fine by me. Hell as it is there are what seems like a million churches in my town anyway......im voting to close them down and open food-4-less's (our name says it, our prices prove it!!!!1!, Food 4 Less!!!!21@#!11). The riot thing might be a  little bit of excitement, who doesnt love a little bit of anarchy every once in a while??? Oh and lastly, the gay related violence in schools is kind of already an ordeal as it is....least here.Face it, i wouldnt want to change for p.e./footbal/soccer/chess club/ etc. next to some one that likes dicks. ALOT of people would feel uncomfortable unless you are into that sort of thing.
being gay in school in this generation isnt really tolerated by alot of people.....at least here.



All in good fun though jesse....dont get mad at me  =(....... oh andd if none if this makes sense, im kinda out of it.

[*MAFIA* OUTLAW]

I'm not mad at you. I think your point is proven on how hard it is to prove gay marriage is wrong without using religious terms. It's a sticky topic to talk about lol.

[*MAFIA* Wasserfaller]

1.  Children in public schools will have to be taught that same-sex marriage is just as good as traditional marriage.

 I also don't want the schools teaching my children something I don't agree with.

 HOLY SHIT!?!!!11 Schools telling our children that union between gays has the same value as union between heterosexuals?! WTF is with all this equality and equal rights and shit?! No seriously though, that really offends you?

2.Churches may be sued over their tax exempt status if they refuse to allow same-sex marriage ceremonies.

HUH? They can now sue people for discrimination and refusal of services based on someone's sexual orientation? I HAD NO IDEA!

3. Ministers who preach against same-sex marriages may be sued for hate speech and risk government fines.

More state control of what the church has to say!

LOL, I hate it when I get sued for teaching an audience of followers that gays are a lesser people.

[Mean Green]

Bottom line is you can't legislate morality.  It is a matter of your heart and your juxtaposition with God.  Like it or not, believe it or not..we struggle with morality because we were born with an innate sense of morality.  We are unable to make ourselves behave properly so we try and try to force it upon ourselves and others.  It is impossible.  Once your position with God is sealed then will you begin to notice your immorality more..and sin-less. We are never sinless or perfect..but we being transformed everyday by the renewing of our minds.  Want to know how to seal your position? Just ask me.

[*MAFIA* Hellraiser]

Bottom line is you can't legislate morality.  It is a matter of your heart and your juxtaposition with God.  Like it or not, believe it or not..we struggle with morality because we were born with an innate sense of morality.  We are unable to make ourselves behave properly so we try and try to force it upon ourselves and others.  It is impossible.  Once your position with God is sealed then will you begin to notice your immorality more..and sin-less. We are never sinless or perfect..but we being transformed everyday by the renewing of our minds.  Want to know how to seal your position? Just ask me.

  How do I seal my position?

[Hawaii-50]

  How do I seal my position?

I prefer the doggy position any old day !!
Ever seen seal's fuck .... not a pretty sight !!!

[*MAFIA* MAGGOT]

Want to know how to seal your position? Just ask me.

I take it has something to do with giving my money to the church so they can rape little boys and worshiping a hypocritical god.....close?? 

[Mean Green]

I take it has something to do with giving my money to the church so they can rape little boys and worshiping a hypocritical god.....close?? 

No even remotely close.  The problem is you guys equate religion to Church.  Going to church no more makes you a Christian than not going to church doesnt.  That is legalism and was rampant in the  Early Catholic Church and in some churches today.  The true definition of religion is to take care of the widows and orphans.  What makes you a Christian is when you acknowledge your separation from God and acceptance of a substitution of payment for you sins.  We are separated from God because he is perfectly holy and we are not.  In order to be reconciled to Him, there has to be payment for the wages of sin. Upon acceptance of the substitutionar y payment, you are now reconciled to God and you are sealed for eternity.  You become a new "creation" and your sins are forgiven and forgotten "as far as the east is from the west."  "Nothing can take you out of his righteous right hand"  and when you die, you will go to heaven and not hell.  The other "stuff" that goes with religiousity today is just that...stuff.  Church is a place for you to worship and acknowledge God in your life.  All the ritual, pomp and circumstance, and activities are not salvific efforts.  Pick up your Bible...or get one if you don't own one..and read about freedom in Christ.  Especially Romans. 

[*MAFIA* MAGGOT]

We are separated from God because he is perfectly holy and we are not. 

And look where that got him......dead.

The true definition of religion is to take care of the widows and orphans. 

couldn't find that one anywhere so meh. I take care of my widowed mother but don't believe in god....does that mean i am religious?

re·li·gion        /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1.   a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.   a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.   the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.   the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.   the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6.   something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7.   religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8.   Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9.   get religion, Informal.
a.   to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b.   to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.
[Origin: 1150–1200; ME religioun (< OF religion) < L religiōn- (s. of religiō) conscientiousn ess, piety, equiv. to relig(āre) to tie, fasten (re- re- + ligāre to bind, tie; cf. ligament) + -iōn- -ion; cf. rely]


I like the red part the best....

Church is a place for you to worship and acknowledge God in your life.  All the ritual, pomp and circumstance, and activities are not salvific efforts. 

You are helping me out on this quote......I take it you shop at food-4-less too \/

Hell as it is there are what seems like a million churches in my town anyway......im voting to close them down and open food-4-less's (our name says it, our prices prove it!!!!1!, Food 4 Less!!!!21@#!11).

Pick up your Bible...or get one if you don't own one..and read about freedom in Christ.  Especially Romans. 

Not necessary..... .Why do you think i have been made into the way i am???? Tried to read it, couldn't read more than about 25 pages tell you the truth....you can look at the quote in my sig for more information... .\/

A thorough reading and understanding of the Bible is the surest path to atheism.
~Donald Morgan

uummmmmm yeah.

Like i said,i dont try to force a religion or there lack of onto anyone,which is why i am not trying to say ''lolololo you should joins us!!!1 gawds didnt existant we are teh awesum!!!@!1''

[*MAFIA* Dune Surfer]

The thing that annoys me is people like you pressing your beliefs on things that you dont need to.  Believe what you want.

I don't press my beliefs on anything I just speak MY mind. I would in no way get a kick out of converting people to a certain way of thinking. I was raised Roman Catholic but when I got to a certain age I couldn't help laughing in church because the priests would preach so sincerely about stuff that seemed totally obsurd and irrelevant to my world. I tried my best to be religious but I ghess I'm a natural skeptic and an asshole in the eyes of the church particularly when 4 of my best friends died in as many years I came to the conclusion that If there is a god he obviously doesn't give a crap about about my friends so I couldn't give a crap about him. Even If he does exist.

"Pressing your beliefs" Check this out, this is what I get through the post from my Italian godmother sometimes. I don't even speak Italian LOL. It kinda seems lke shes emposing her beliefs on me but I still love her all the same. She basically lives to hang around with nuns, priests and holy people.

Elvira the Italian Nun THE DVD- Over 2 hours of Elvira basically preaching that the lord is willing to forgive your sins If you accept him as your saviour. How very nice of him 


Jesus and some following people(Postcard): "If we are all gods children, whats so special about Jesus"? ~Alan Carr


Some other nun with a bunch of blokes hanging around hmmmmm?:


Looks like Jesus's mom but I'm not sure:


I'm not a total asshole I do appreciate the sentiments of family when your moving or going away someplace and they send you stuff through the post even in holy lingo:

[*MAFIA* Hellraiser]

Like I have said many, many times before.  Religion is just something to help motivate people to what is deemed "right".  Without this false feeling of "hey when I die, if I have done right my whole life, I will go to heaven".  The fact of the matter is, when you die, you fucking die.  If you don't get cremated, then you will become word, and bug food.  Get over it.  There is no souls that magically leave your body after your heart and brain stop working.  There is no fucking "white light at the end of the tunnel".  It is all a bunch of bullshit!  I was clinically dead, and I didn't feel no heat, so nothing with horns.  I didn't see no bright fucking light.  BULLSHIT!!!!  But if you need to have these false hopes and thoughts, and that is what gets you through the day.  MORE POWER TO YA!!!  Life is to short for me to waste my time going to church and praying to someone/something that doesn't exist or fucking listen.

I understand that everyone needs a higher power, because man is to weak to the evil ways.  Use something you can see, or feel, or talk too.  That will be motivation enough.  Then, when you ask a question, you will get an answer back.  Not have to look at everything and wonder if that is the answer your God is giving you.  Religion=waste of time.  Someone pass me a beer!!!!!   

[Mean Green]

Not trying to argue...but here are my comments:

1.  God is not dead.  He is alive indeed.

2.  The Bible is not meant to be read like a Novel.  It is to be studied. 

3.  Please do not use the Catholic Church as the standard for Christianity.  I studied Church History for a year and "IT AINT BIBLICAL".  Meaning the catholic church structure involving the pope isnt in the Bible.  It was set up for territorial purposes and made a "hard left turn" around 400 AD.  I'd be happy to share more of that with you if youre interested.

4.  Christianity is faith based.  Faith in a savior, Jesus Christ.  I believe the scriptures, old and new.
 
5.  Scripture tells me that when I die I will be judged.  Because I believe in the substitionary death and resurrection of Christ as payment for my sins, I will be asked one question:  Do you know my Son?  God knows that I do...so it seems redundant, however the point is that my life on earth, full of sin and good deeds, will not make a rats @$$ difference in the place I go.

6.  I believe that if you do not have faith in Christ as the Savior you will go to Hell.  Regardless of your deeds on earth.  We are unable to save ourselves from hell by doing good deeds.  THAT IS BIBLICAL.

7.  You will notice that Church is no where in the narrative above.  Church was established, by God, as a place of worship.  NOT OF JUDGEMENT.  There is no purgatory.

8.  Faith and Christianity are about the condition of your heart/soul..and not about Church. Church activity occurs as a desire to worship as a result of a thankful heart. 

9.  In regards to Prop 8..Since I do not live there, Im not real sure what it requires. I can tell you that I take my job as MOM very seriously and as such have hopefully taken the important steps to ensure my children have been educated in the ways that I prefer.  I sent my kids to a private Christian school (libertychristi an.com) that partnered with my beliefs and educational goals.  That was my choice.  If the school decided to begin teaching principles that I disagreed with I would make attempts to right the wrongs and if unsuccessful would remove them from the system.
 
10.  I believe homosexuality is a sin as is lying, cheating, stealing, murder, adultery, and others...all the same.  So if Prop 8 wants to force the teaching of homosexuality and same sex marriage, I would oppose. 

11.  Hopefully none of you have ever thought that I've judged you.  I love you all just the way you are..well, not hellraiser (JK).  Hopefully soon you will know about which I am speaking and have freedom. 

KISSES!

[*MAFIA* Hellraiser]

So you don't love me??  That's cool.  I could have the whole world hate me, except for my kids, thier kids and my parents and would be completely fine with it.